general discussion,  cautions,  suppliers  and  e-tailers

B1, B2, B6      niacin      B-12      metafolin /folapro

B vits  -  general discussion,  multi's

vitamin C         vitamin E

vitamin A           vitamin A and bone resorption

retinyl acetate measles? rash            impact of vitamin A on periods

dunaliella betacarotene

vitamin D

unit  conversions

enzymes  -  this page

starting enzymes      ( in the BCD cooking and food  index )

no-fenol may ameliorate parkinsons

MSM and DMSO        DMG and TMG        CoQ10

essential fatty acids  (EFA's)  and oils

  lead  in usa grown sunflower seeds?

hydrogen peroxide      melatonin      hair test      vitamin K

amino acids | taurine          oreganol   (oil of oregano)

olive leaf extract  (OLE)

supplement timing and measuring and storing

supplements being taken at school

children self-reporting the effects of supplements and foods

hormone replacement therapy   (HRT)


it's what i say i am actually taking that has the highest priority of recommendation !

i appreciate the discussions are meandering, but that's the way it is, the ground keeps shifting with new experience and information !

don't give up, you will get substantial benefits with time and effort !


supplements which shouldn't be taken together are k2 with inorganic magnesium, strontium or calcium

vitamin E and omega six oils shouldn't be taken together

high doses of vitamin E antagonise vitamin K

if you are taking vitamin K and vitamin D ,  you will need to take vitamin A occasionally to balance them up

recent research shows small amounts of zinc every three days and daily B6 induct better metabolic health and are easy stand-alones !


heat shock proteins induce better metabolic health  (ed. infrared, a wood stove in my case !)


don't overdo antioxidants

free radicals are also immune system signalling compounds  study


  source naturals   ruin most of their supplements by the addition of biofilm/fodmap promoting additives like sorbitol, which is a pity because some of their products are otherwise ok

the  now foods  brand  and  vitaminshoppe  use the bcd/scd illegal rice flour filler in some products

i don't like  now foods,  they have quality and formulation problems, they just buy the cheapest raw materials i think, spacy name so what do you expect ?

i won't buy life extension, i don't like their quality and formulations but its been many years since i used them

the biosil silica formulation from  natural factors  appears to be ok, but some of their other products i am a bit suss of !

douglas labs has some good products, but some do include SCD/BCD illegals, easy enough to check for by looking at the ingredients list !

also take care that the tablet size is not too big, how big you can tolerate depends on how fine you are   too !

  solgar  is another good quality brand but the cardboard gaskets in the lids permit moisture ingress once the seal is broken, so i change the contents out of the glass bottle into a plastic bottle, preferably with a plastic gasket !

bottles without a plastic/foam gasket in the lid, even if plastic, do not seem to seal 100%

i then put a dry dessicant in with the contents

you would be advised discuss any departures from the brands i have recommended on the  who_knows   message board, there can be significant differences between supposedly similar products in different brands

do NOT use supplements with ALA or NAC in, these mobilise mercury  destructively

there is no better way to kill your brain than single large daily doses of ALA with amalgam fillings in.

you lose half your brain and wander about a zombie and there's  no recovery

also MSM doses need to be kept small or it will mobilise heavy metals as well

supplements need to be kept in a cool dry place preferably 25C/77F or lower or the dessicants de-gas moisture at about 35C/95F

i avoid real life health shops because the staff are usually so contagiously viral

and the main e‑tailers i use are  vitamin life  and  iherb

losing weight   on  the  compendium  !


B1, B2, B6

i used take once every several days aproximately  25mg  of B1  (thiamine).

this was cut down douglas labs 100mg B1

eileen takes it daily ?

thiamine make make the serotonin receptors more sensitive to serotonin which would help with sleep i guess and other issues, but it really has an effect reducing or eliminating a distention of the lower stomach.

thiamine reduces blood lead levels  very significantly

the quality of thiamine is important. the solgar and douglas labs B1 are good, the australian brand  herbs of gold   B1 is no good

the formulation should be scd/bcd legal in terms of fillers, and quality brands are generally ok !


25mg of B2 (riboflavin)

this is cut down solgar 100mg B2 but i put it in a different bottle with a lid that seals unlike the paper seal in the solgar lid  (the solgar has a proper initial seal that you break when using for the first time)

riboflavin (B2) and niacin (B3) are are the precursors of the cofactors NADH and FADH2 (the major electron carriers in the synthesis of ATP)

“ in some conditions, the body cannot efficiently synthesize nadh and fadh2 from niacin and riboflavin because of defect/damage to the enzymes involved in this conversion.  more riboflavin and niacin are needed to override the inefficient enzymes in order to obtain adequate levels of cofactors  ”


9 to 16mg of B6 daily, this is quite a large amount and makes one feel a bit raggedity

B6 quality appears to be important for sleep and the vitamin has an overall  metabloic heft  !

the huge surprise with B6 is, if taken before (its acid stable), with or after a meal, there is a massive improvement to   digestion  in enabling toleration of grains, sugary desserts etc

the blackmore's B6 is great cut down to about a twelfth which is about 16mg

B6 may also be important for the metabolism of glycine (collogen/gelatine in jelly and broth)

the P5P form of B6 may be actually better than B6 but unfortunately P5P appears to be less acid resistant than B6 so the amount you actually absorb is very variable and i gave it up as too much trouble.



generally i just get the nicotinamide (a non flushing niacin) as a part of the blackmores b-multi which might amount to 20 to 40 mg a day

i also take 50 - 100mg of the flushing niacin, but not every day or even often at all as i think this much niacin can be immune suppressing and also my circulation is very good and i don't seem to need it from that point of view !

the twinlabs 500mg capsules niacin seems to keep well and can be divided down. don't ever be tempted to take a full capsules, 1/4 of a capsule can be bad enough, the flush can be quite unpleasant. if you do overdose, just ride it through.

17/6/11 :  i did an accidental niacin “overdose” with two of the new twinlab 1000 mg capsules  (which makes 2 grams in total)  thinking they were candex and got a very strong overall flush, heart pounded a bit at times and felt a bit weak but it wore off after an hour and a half or two hours or so and pretty well back to normal in about 3 or 4 hours?

i just took it easy, pottering around as i read high doses can lower blood pressure

it wasn't as bad as it hought it might be, but i just took it easy and pottered around then lay down later

don't know wether it had any beneficial effect or not but my cardiovascular system has always been pretty good !

wasn't that unpleasant at all, but certainly a very pronounced effect you have to take time out for

my thinking seems to be clearer so maybe it did something !

it's certainly a circulation stimulant !

what was  noticable  was it made  all the skin pink !

yikes! later i got the dry heaves that night, think it was the niacin? an hour and half, it wasn't fun and nausea and vomiting are symptoms of niacin overdose !

most unusual, whole chest felt extremely "fractured" and the lungs tingled a bit like with the flushing effect of niacin

i don't think its advisable to take niacin if you have a cold or flu virus, it seems to flush it through the whole system !


the allergy research niacin is not recommended as it contains leucine which feeds biofilm !


niacin has a benefit for digestion if taken after a meal and a huge benefit for opening up the fine capillaries if you don't get much exercise.

the flush type niacin is a vasodilator and crosses the brain blood barrier, making the difference between serious brain damage and good recovery if you take it quick enough after a  stroke  or embolism, like within minutes to a half an hour or so, depending

one reason this is so, might be this  study  which says that b3/niacin/nicotinic acid useful for improving mitochondrial function !

“ the nicotinic acid normalized signaling activity not just in PPAR, but across an integrated signaling network, and also improved overall cellular respiration—the cells' ability to use oxygen ”

niacin promotes the good cholesterol (hdl) by down-regulating hdl removal in the liver  study

it will also be synergistic with chromium in maintaining a healthy hdl to ldl cholesterol ratio and amounts

the flush type is a strong cardiovascular circulation promoter and reduces the amount of exercise needed


niacin is an anti-inflammatory and probably immune system suppressor and as such has a benefit for oesteoarthrtitis, however i don't think it is wise to persue a specific effect like helping with osteoarthrtis with such a strong globally affecting supplement, not all of it the right way

maybe there is utility for its use with sprains though, or osteo on a joint that repairs

“the effect of niacinamide on osteoarthritis: a pilot study”  abstract

individual tolerances vary; personally, i find taking it daily has an effect on my skin , maybe making it feel sort of dry and grippy and maybe also significantly suppressing anti-bacterial immune action, so i am better off taking it once every two or three days

maybe not enough fish oil and too much winter season cream has also had an adverse effect on the skin

sweat rashes may also be a problem, niacin is lost/excreted in sweat  study

“The beneficial clinical efficacy of niacin appropriately emphasizes the prominent role of its lipid-altering effects; however, high expression of niacin receptor in a variety of immune cell types, lowering of inflammatory markers, and beneficial impact on adipokines expression could provide rational to the hypothesis that anti-inflammatory effect is also an important property of niacin on atherosclerosis beyond its lipid-altering effects.”


eileen writes:

I've been looking into niacin more recently as I had upped my amount and it seemed to be dampening down the knee pain I get if I overwork it (got some osteoarthritis and loss of cartilage revealed in an X-ray unfortunately) I tried juggling larger amounts of it along with Vit D and eye Q but have since gone back down to my previous amount as it looks like it significantly affects immunity and will also make it out of balance with other supplements

Also adding to the joint repair study I found last night already posted here is an interesting study about niacinamide's protective role re fibrous type II collagen in animal spinal discs

I didn't realize niacin is used in topically applied cosmetics for enhanced dermal collagen on face and lips apparently, I think this can translate into a role in joint collagen too

“ The metabolism and conversion of the proline in collagen is connected to enzymes that require niacin Proline is a nonessential amino acid and can be synthesized from glutamic acid. Proline is associated with the production of collagen which promotes healthy skin, joints, tendons, and heart muscle, cardiac muscle.

The metabolism of proline is connected to enzymes that require niacin and vitamin C. Proline is a major component in the formation of connective tissue and heart muscle. It is readily mobilized for muscular energy. Proline is a major constituent of collagen and makes up about 9% of collagen ”


“ Nicianamide was found to increase total protein secreted from quinscent dermal fibroblasts, and also there was selectivity for collagen production over total protein, These data suggest that niacinamide will lead to an increase in dermal matrix content via elevated collagen synthesis as well as other secreted proteins ”

Oblong JE et al.   “ Niacinamide stimulates collagen synthesis from human dermal fibroblasts and differentiation marker in normal human epidermal keratinocytes ”


“The purpose of the invention is to provide a topical agent for application to the skin in order to enhance the dermal collagen production, this effect was supported with biochemical analysis which showed an increase in the PIIINP levels According to the present invention there is provided a topical agent in the form of a topical vasodilator for the application to the skin consists of the active substance nicotinic acid (Niacin) in the range of 0.5-10. 0 % by weight to 10.0 % by weight of the active substance, Niacin.”


Protective effect of niacinamide on interleukin-1beta-induced annulus fibrosus type II collagen degeneration in vitro.  (pmid: 17393114)

Niacinamide is of potential for clinical treatment of intervertebral disc degeneration.


“ our research found that nicotinamide can prevent the immunosuppressive effects of uv by energising cells  (promotes NADH/ATP)  so they maintain their immunity

tests using the water-soluble vitamin offered equally strong protection against both uva and uvb in both lotion and tablet form, according to tests on volunteers ”

professor diona damian of the university of sydney



like folate, its a cell division promoter

an interesting  consideration  on methyl versus cyano, the cyano having the advantage of converting into both the methyl and adneosyl co-enzyme forms !

i have taken both over many years and on reflection they are slightly different in effect, i  think i prefer the methyl, but some may find the cyano easier on the gut

the methyl gives a certain degree of high i think

i find too much B-12 makes for hyper and poor sleep and needs balancing up with L-5-methyl tetrahydrofolate  (folate)  and conversely too much L-5-methyl tetrahydrofolate is depressing so that is how you work out to balance them !

really you just have to learn to judge the effect and go on that to get the right balance of  B-12  and L-5-methyl tetrahydrofolate !

i occasionally take a quarter of a cut down 1mg  (=1000µg)  nutrition care  (australian brand) cyanocobalamin  B-12 sublingual tablet, it is slightly effervescent (sodium carbonate ?) so i suspect the benefit of taking this is that the other agents in the tablet denature the B-12, so you are not taking much B-12 at all but getting the advantages of the antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties of  dietary cobalt  in the tablet !

“ when cobalt ions are consumed in amounts greater than provided as vitamin B12, systemic antioxidant and anti-inflammatory processes are stimulated ”

cutting down the jarrow methyl   B-12 lozenge to say 1/4 or 1/6th and held under the tongue until it disappears doesn't seem to cause the gut issues you might expect and the methyl form  (vs cynaocobalamin)  i find better, tangible really !

it contains the  ‘ scd illegal ’  xylitol, but it seems to be ok !

too much B-12 makes going to sleep difficult, but it also promotes the immune system

B-12 should preferably be sublingual, but it's a bit hard to find them without SCD/BCD illegals

B-12 is quite well absorbed though the veins in the mouth :  under the tongue and through the cheek !

in low selenium countries it is helpful to be taking selenium to detoxify the cyano portion of cynacobalamin

oral methylcobalamin or hydroxy B-12 feeds gut bugs, the methyl B-12 form should be injected as the nasal sprays can feed bugs in the nose as well.

methylcobalamin B-12 injections are a therapy for diabetic neuropathy !

b-12 analogues  in spirulina causing  depression ?

a mother's description of what was happening to her child with nasal spray methyl B-12 use

“ he has become increasingly stuffy nosed alternating w/ lots of sneezing. Then in the past week, he went back to wheezing  (ed.  asthma)  attacks at night needing the inhaler and a lot of night waking from a stuffy nose ”

probably injected methyl B-12 is the superior form and may be necessary if the stomach can't absorb B-12, also the hydroxy B-12 (Hydroxycobalamin) seems to be preferred by some for injection

B-12 absorbtion is a complicated biochemical chain, so in severe cases of nutrient deficencies or illness may be disrupted

injected B-12 should be injected into the buttock at a shallow angle to facilitate slow release from the fatty tissue aka dr. neubrander's method

i would not assume that all injected B-12's are the same, you need to sort this out.

dr. neubrander  has a online video on the buttock method on his web  site

i have no practical experience of injected methyl B-12 so you will have to ask around, however imo the doses given are too high and should be a lot less and given more frequently  (if necessary)

there is some concern about B-12 methylating mercury from the inorganic to an adducted organic form with a consequent huge promotion of toxicity so i would not recommend B-12 injections with mercury toxicity, especially with amalgams in. fish and shellfish can be a surpisingly large source of mercury and arsenic

fred's  write  up

his  update ,  i think he has interesting things to say on B-12 and metafolin/L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate versus folic acid, the rest of the advice  is uneven or misguided


janet writes:

Do you have a DAN that could prescribe them for your daughter? It's a little over $50 including the overnight shipping with ice block for our mb12 shots - they send 20 prefilled syringes with the intent for me to give my son one shot every three days (way too often for him, so I usually had to throw away half of the doses unused). I now take one along with him (he helps give me mine as a way to ease the fact of him having to take his) and we each do one maybe once every week or week and a half. We take them in the upper thigh. They expire after 3 months, then I'll skip a month or so, feel or see the need for them again and order a refill. Even with the child sized dose (he is 1/3 of my weight) I can tell an improvement after taking one, though they sting like the dickens for a few minutes.

We used the buttock method (while he was sleeping) when he was younger. Now that he is older, we just give him the shot, he helps give mine and by giving in the thigh it allows him more dignity and control over the situation. I honestly don't see any difference in thigh versus buttocks for him. I've always taken mine in the thigh, so can't compare for myself. I find the fattiest part I can which isn't easy especially on him and try to get it subcutaneous. It's not a straight shot in.

The Neubrander schedule of every three days was entirely too much for him plus we had to reduce the dose to .03 ml = 750 µg when his weight calls for .05 ml.

Saturation point for mb12 shots in my son was shown as hyperness, sleeplessness and red cheeks. This is if he took them every 3 days like the DAN started him on. If we took them according to his yasko genetics (needing high amounts of methyl groups), he would probably turn into a human bouncing ball and uncontrollable! Taken more occasionally as suggested by Andrew, which is for us once every week or two, there's not really any saturation point seen, just an even balance if I keep up with them.

If I go a very long while without giving him his shot (several months), he will start to complain of leg pains or wake up at night with his legs "sizzling" - his word for them apparently falling asleep. The last he took were at the end of May and I recently had to reorder (due to noted leg probs again). I need to really stay on top of them better than I do to avoid this, mark my calendar or something to remind myself to reorder sooner.

My son's speech problem is in articulation; the words still come out like "stuth" instead of "stuff" or "willy" instead of "really" and so on, but there are a lot of improvements. Because the mb12 shots seemed to cause a massive increase in chewing and biting on things at first and then improvement in articulation, the DAN theory was that he apparently had lack of feeling/low muscle tone in his lower lip (confirmed by speech therapist) at the same time he was complaining of leg pains and "sizzling" (form of neuropathy?) and the mb12 shots helped restore the feeling and gave him better mouth movement so better ability to make sounds.


mary writes:

B12 injections caused super aggression here as did folic and folinic acid. After

reading some of the Yasko info, I tried 5-methytetrahydrofolate which she tolerated. After a time I reintroduced the MB12 shots and all was fine.


methyl B-12 goes to the brain better and B-12 helps remyelinate. (viruses are demyelinating)

supposedly the different forms of B-12 freely convert, but practically the methyl B-12 does seem better, the only issue is, if taken orally, it feeds yeast because the cobalt in the B-12 is a growth stimulant for gut flora

the cyano B-12 has a toxic cyanide attached so that limits the ability of gut flora to take advantage of it, so is the most suitbale for oral supplementation imo

let me just make this clear, i take the oral cyanocobalamin form because it doesn't feed gut biofilm and i don't take the oral methyl B-12 because it feeds gut biofilm

hydroxycobalamin B-12 is also a yeast feeder

janet writes: i would rate hydroxycobalamin as having an even worse effect on us than oral methyl B12

andrews comment: the product janet was taking had sorbitol in, probably a double whammy effect from a yeast feeding form of B-12 and the sorbitol

experimenting with some betaine HCL recently i was staggered how much of an issue the maltodextrin in it was

liver and milk are good sources of B-12

B-12 improves stomach emptying times

"Vitamin B12 is involved in the manufacture of the myelin sheath, a fatty layer which insulates nerves in the brain. It is also essential for the formation of neurotransmitters. "


B-12 protects against brain  volume  loss in the elderly

 “ the study found that people who had higher vitamin B12 levels were six times less likely to experience brain shrinkage compared with those who had lower levels of the vitamin in their blood

none of the people in the study had vitamin B12 deficiency ”

B-12 is a co-factor for folate, more folate/metafolin needs more B-12 to balance and vice versa

there's quite a bit of B-12 in the blackmores b multi in the summer of 2008/2009 i ate a lot of strawberries and raspberries over christmas and new year and developed an ear infection which i think was at least part due to all the folate and me not taking any B-12 supplemental to what was in the B-multi

there was a lot of grass pollen around too and as the eustachian tube goes to the back of the inner nose, this may have led to the tube becoming closed and not draining the inner ear

  raspberries  have a very high ORAC  (oxygen radical absorbance capacity)  value, normally a good thing but possibly reducing the level of oxidant signallers in the immune system

high serum folate and B-12 slows brain aging, high serum folate and low B-12  accelerates  it

too much B-12 is very enervating and interferes with sleep


i think eating a lot of fruit with its highish folate levels really ramp/s up the need for B-12, like the blackmores B-12 tablet is 100 µg and i think i have been dividing it down too much, to say 1/10th but with high fruit intake more like 1/8th to 1/4 is needed

the problem with folate unmatched by B-12 is the immune system gets depressed ?



update april 2016 :

i have come to appreciate that the effect of   L-5-methyl-tetrahydrofolate   can take as long as 24 hours to hit with full force and last over several days !

the benefit and disadvantage of folapro is that it is  “ anti-inflammatory ”  but inflammation also ramps anti viral defenses by the body . .

this is also an issue short term for oral vitamin D and sun on the skin

so depending on the season and your viral status caution is required . .

that is use with caution, watch the timing and cut down amounts . .

but having said that folapro/L-5-methyl tetrahydrofolate is really effective for  “ wired-type ”  insomnia ,  knocks one right down so one sleeps like a baby !

sleeping twice a day every couple of days or so is something else that works well !

if you are not sleeping well, your brain is being damaged !

update april 2010 :

i have become more episodic in taking  folapro,  that is, not necessarily every day

i certainly need it when i take more B-12 or i feel my homocysteine is a bit high and have trouble going to sleep

metafolin/folapro/L-5-methyl tetrahydrofolate  strongly reduces homocysteine !

it takes about 8½ to 11 hours from ingestion for the major effect though some effect can be within half an hour and the major effect lasts another twelve? hours after it cuts in

the BCD is fairly high in folate

eileen still finds daily folapro and B-12 essential, folapro is anti-anemic and promotes red blood cells which is an advantage to her

too much folapro impairs immune system function by reducing natural killer cell cytotoxicity

demethylation of DNA is an innate immune system  response  activated only hours after an exposure, so a methylator like folapro could be working in the wrong direction in the context of infection and infection exposure !

“ several clues lead us to believe that the innate immune system also has immunological memory, and the demethylation of DNA may play an important role in the acquisition of this memory ”

only the metagenics  folapro  is recommended,  actifolate  is NOT recommended

solgar's metafolin product, the 800µg “folate” unfortunately includes mannitol which is illegal under  scd  and the  BCD 

solgar's   claim   that the amount of mannitol provides  a dietarily insignificant amount of sugar alcohol   is   incorrect

my experience is if it's in a supplement, it can upset the gut !

inclusion of these fermentation promoting sugar alcohols as sweeteners is an unfortunate industry trend !


metafolin is the metabolically active form of folate called “L-5-methyl tetrahydrofolate”, which is next down the processing chain from folate in the body

i take about 100 - 200µg (1/8th to 1/4 of an 800µg tablet) of folapro, sometimes i double that to 400µg when i feel i need it.

how often i take it is quite variable, if i am eating a lot of fruit and/or am viral i mightn't take it for a week, but if i am very well and have trouble sleeping i take it daily !

metafolin is essential with B-12 supplementation and conversely metafolin or a high levels of folate in the diet considerably increases the need for B-12

however B-12 reduces sleep, taking B-12 in the morning only may help, but my experience is larger doses of B-12 are quite enervating over all the day and night

too much metafolin makes for oversleepiness and the long term taking of too much induces a subtle lethargy, even ¼ of a tablet long term can be too much

folonic acid, a precursor  (though an active metabolite in its own right)  of L-5-methyl tetrahydrofolate, inhibits thymidylate synthetase  (promotes dna synthesis and repair)  which i take to be indicative of a broad complex effect of metafolin and that there really is the case of not taking more than is needed

   unmetabolised folic acid or  umfa

“ however, with doses of half the amount of synthetic folic acid being proposed for fortification in the uk, the liver becomes saturated and unmetabolised  folic acid floats around the blood stream ”

mandatory folic acid fortification has been linked with a number of potential heath risks

those include the increased risk of certain types of colorectal cancer  (colorectal adenomas ?) ,  prostate cancer, cognitive  degeneration  in older individuals who have depleted levels of B6 and B12, and cardiovascular disease ”

high RBC folate  levels  are associated with the shutting down by methylation of two tumour suppressing genes in colorectal tissue

these two genes also have been found to be methylated in breast, prostate and lung tumors

too much L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate is also an issue imo  ( half a tablet a day for a while ? )  and depresses the immune system  ( reduced natural killer cell cytotoxicity )  making for viral/flu's and possibly tonsil susceptiblity, bacteria and viruses can work together to keep a pincher like grip on successful infection

“ excess unmetabolised folic acid significantly reduces natural killer cell  cytotoxicity ”

however metafolin within a certain dose window also has positive effect on the immune system, supporting anti-bacterial/biofilmic action

in the of winter 2009, eileen had her daughter at 1/2 a folapro or 400µg daily and she got laid up with several viruses, her daughter was much better after going back to 1/4, tho eileen says the season got less viral

the pro GABA synergy of metafolin with lithium is very strong once a certain threshold of lithium taken is passed, GABA winds down the brain and makes for better sleep !

i usually take 1/8th - 1/4 of a tablet (100 - 200µg), sometimes going up to 1/2 if i feel i need to be more sleepy

the effect of taking it is delayed into two stages

about 5 - 6 hours for the first  soporific  effect and is somewhat stimulatory initally when taken, so wants taking at least 5 to 6 hours before bed, and there may be some advantage to taking it like this rather than earlier in the day, i am feeling wound down now after taking 1/4 of a tablet after some steam pressure cooked pasturized bartlett pears with double cream about 5½ - 6 hours ago

the second and main stage of effect has an 8½ - 11 hours delay from swallowing the tablet portion to making for pronounced sleepiness

the amount to take of metafolin is relatively critical, too little and not enough homocysteine reducing effect, too much has a generally depressing effect and may be adversely indirectly inflammatory (i think overuse of metafolin may have inflamed a lower back disk with me, cured with msm and more knee bending fortunately)

by indirectly inflammatory i mean that the bodies immune response is depressed in some areas and perhaps over-compensates in others as it tries to gain more function

it really reduces allergy potential, i used to be highly allergic to mangoes but can now eat huge quantities without blinking

going from the opposite of the quote below, metafolin promotes immune response and encourages cell growth and certain enzymes

“ CH-1504 is the lead product candidate in Chelsea's portfolio of novel antifolate compounds developed by Dr. Gopal Nair and licensed by the company in 2004

An orally available and metabolically inert antifolate with potent anti-inflammatory and anti-tumor properties, CH-1504 potently inhibits several key enzymes that are required for cell proliferation

Preclinical and clinical data to date suggests superior safety and tolerability, as well as increased potency versus MTX, currently the leading antifolate treatment and standard of care for a broad range of abnormal cell proliferation diseases

Diseases that may potentially benefit from the compound include RA, psoriasis, inflammatory bowel disease, cancer and other immunological disorders ”


the metagenics folapro (800 µg of metafolin) is good but expensive and the tablet is hard to cut down, but its all thats available now, tho phillips nutritionals in california may sell a "no name" version

metafolin does not have as long a shelf life as folic acid so it pays to get bottles with as small a quantity of tablets as possible, or divide down a larger bottle with dessicants


it is likely that folapro being methyl tetrahydrofolate has a strong anti-cancer preventative effect for some cancers, especially for melanoma, since it amplifies DNA and RNA synthesis ( the correct repair of dna most likely in this context), whereas the antifolate methotrexate supresses synthesis

the effect will be complex since established cancers like luekemia are able to use it but since it will help correct construction of DNA it will help prevent the formation of cancers

“ incidence of melanoma and other  malignancies  among rheumatoid arthritis patients treated with  methotrexate ”

B-12 and folate stimulate cell division, so may be general  “pro cancer”  nutritional factors, but on balance with iodine and selenium the compendium and bcd considerably lower the cancer risk

increased cell divison will also favour some viruses and other pathogens i think, but it also promotes the immune system e.g. making more T cell's

B-12 is more generally anti-viral than folapro in my experience and too much folapro can be viral, tho folapro has some anti-bacterial action

 “ this  research  revealed an increase in all types of cancers  (lung and prostrate cancer were prominent)  in the group taking the B-12 and folic acid supplement, except for colorectal cancer

lung cancer rates were 25 per cent higher in those who took the supplements compared with those who did not

deaths both from cancer and from other causes were also higher in the group taking the supplement ”







a window

between hypo




eileen writes:

I started out only taking 1/8th of a folapro tablet a day with the b12 I use, then tried 1/4 a day out of curiosity for a few days but found it made me sleepy so switched back to 1/8th and this suits me well, this and the Blackmores Cyanocobalamin B12 About 1/16th roughly 8mg? a day) have Really made a big differance to health.


sylvia writes on folapro versus folinic acid :

That is what happens to Nick on Folinic. He did great for a long time on regular folic acid, but the effects went away. But with Folinic, he got mean and grumpy right away. Like he was just real edgey, and everyone was getting on his nerves.

With Folapro we get better attention and calmness. More tuned in. It is probably the best supplement we have ever tried with him, and we have tried hundreds of supplements. I can always tell when I skip a few days with him. But I rarely forget to give it to him now since it is such an important one for him.

And one of the best things, it is not too expensive. It is so nice to find something helpful that doesn't cost an arm and a leg!


Some metabolic relationships between biopterin and folate :   implications for the  “ methyl trap hypothesis ”

Tetrahydrobiopterin and the folate coenzymes can reciprocally interact in ways that would be useful to the metabolic pathways subserved by both of these coenzymes. Thus, through one of the reactions catalyzed by methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase, 5-CH3-H4-folate can regenerate BH4 from q-BH2 and q-BH2 can provide an escape from the "methyl trap."

S. Kaufman: Laboratory of Neurochemistry, National Institute of Mental Health, Bethesda, Maryland



rda's for B vitamins can be understated because there are losses through digestion and this can vary

i do not like the  now  brand B-100 and neither did eileen or laura, also janet 's son became hyper and had “off” behavior on the  now foods  B-50

something not quite right with them, maybe yeast promoting?  it has some PABA in which is not usual, is this the problem?  is PABA a biofilm feeder ?

Jarrow B-right has PABA in which i find is a gut bug feeder

PABA is very useful, but unfortunately, it's abiofilm/microbiome feeder !

the vrp  extension B-plex  also has PABA in as well as being a capsule and is not satisfactory (duchla!)

i have tried the vrp extension B-plex and it's good from an energy point of view, but the malign biofilm effect of the B-plex is like CoQ10 i think, somewhat subtle and surprising

capsule multi B vits are a problem because they are too open to the air and having a combination of b vits like that makes good food for biofilm in the capsule so tablets are the way to go

i cut the the blackmores (australian brand)   mega - B complex   tablets right down and take small pieces several times daily, sometimes with a single daily addition of the single B vitamin doses discussed previously above

also maybe take a bit first thing in the morning, after some thick cream, to provide some B vits after the sleeping fast

usually i take a small amount of a B-multi and B6 before bed also, but this can be biofilm feeding !

we are having trouble coming up with a satisfactory B-multi available in the usa, at the moment the blackmores mega-B appears to be the best and least biofilm feeding B-multi !

two possible sources for the blackmores products if you are in the usa are  this  or  this,  however, i have never used these companies and have no idea about them at all !

30th may 2017, b-multis can make for queasy gut problems, i have pretty well stopped taking a b-multi, b6 before a meal can help digestion and i eat enough liver not to need extra B-12 !

still working on this !


you have to be careful with b vits, the way i take then wanders all over the place but eileen takes then regularly

b-12 i take about 100 ug once a week with some folapro, you actually need to keep a file for recording the date of supplements you don't take daily, like i record when i take B-12, where i place the skin iodine and how much iodine i use, when i take folapro, germanium, mycellized A, oral iodine, uvb lamp use, possum or wallaby thyroid lobe

eileen does it different, but usually i just take 1/10th of a blackmores b multi often after some heavy cream once or twice a day and 25mg of b6 once a day towards evening and maybe niacin very couple of days

every now and then i will take the extra b1, b2, niacin

 eileen  writes (april 2010) :

I take all of the B vits everyday, Some I couldn't go without

Niacin cos of poor circulation

Folapro/B-12 cos I just can't seem to retain iron no matter how much feral liver I eat, think I have that genetic "profile" that causes iron retention difficulties

I tried 1/10th (100µg) & even 1/8th (125µg) of the 'nutrition care' 1mg B-12 tablet, but it doesn't seem to bring the energy ¼ (250µg) does for me.

[ the RDA for B-12 is about 2µg ]

B6 cos I wouldn't sleep as well or be as happy mooded

I take all my B vits in the morning after eating, enzymes, efa's vit C, vit e, copper and zinc

1/10th of a twinlabs 500mg niacin capsule, occationally I take this more than once a day depending on how my circulation is going

1/4 of a folapro and almost as much B 12 as there is a need to match the amount of folapro to B 12 taken, I do need this, You and your families needs might not be the same

Roughly 25mg a day of B1, B2 & B6

The multi B I also take daily cos sometimes even the single B vits don't seem to be quite enough, altho occasionally dont seem to need it

Depending on how much fluid I have drunk over the day, Bit of a teapot I am ;o)


janet (usa) couldn't find a good b-multi with biotin in, so adds a sprinkle to the b-multi, its interesting she felt the need for it for balance (10 - 100 µg?)

dana uses 400 µg to 1 mg of biotin as an anti-yeast agent

probiotic bacteria make biotin to supress yeast, especially stopping it turning into the filamentous form?


taking optizinc about 1/4 of an hour before the b vits and about 20? minutes after enzymes seems to help manage the b vit promotion of intestinal yeast somewhat.

time release b's have some sort of scd illegality (cellulose gum?) intrinisic to the time release and this is an issue across all time releases (the lef time release melatonin (2005), is way bad in this respect)

time release versions of any supplements are problematic from a digestive point of view !

12? mg of b6 before bed seems to greatly improve dream recall

riboflavin (b-2) is important for energy and fat metabolism to the extent that if i am low riboflavin i get migrainy from the unmetabolised cream i eat. riboflavin may also be indirectly anti-viral through mito support.

suprisingly, fat is an easier fuel than sugar for dysfunctional mitochondria  to process  !

fatigue/drowsiness can indicate low riboflavin levels, as well as splits in the corner of the mouth.

there are other 'unofficial' vitamins that the formulas don't cover so it will run these and other co-factors out, so i am careful not to overdo it and keep good b vit foods in my diet like feral liver to help balance up the co factors not covered by the formula.

i also sometimes top up with some supplementary niacin (10- 20 mg?- twinlabs 500mg) as niacin spares tryptophan in a major way and helps with sleep. also the niacin form gives some balance to the nicotinamide. however for sleep niacin seems best taken in the morning.

nicotinamide is a later metabolic stage of niacin, some niacin is processed in the liver to nicotinamide i think and perhaps vice versa.

niacin can cause a flush from capillary dilation when you first start , though this habituates. be cautious with how much niacin you take.

methyl B-12 injections seem to be a very effective way of getting B-12 into the body if it is not being absorbed but using too large an amount and for too long seems to be common, and it needs to be balnaced up with metafolin. aggression or hyper may be a symptom of this.

i find the best source of B-12 is possum liver which gives the right forms and all the co-factors. feral possum and wallaby kidneys also seem a good source of b vits.

unfortunately new zealand is poisoning its possums with brodifactorum which should be banned because it a very enviromentally persistant toxin staying in the liver years after the poison is ingested.

the p5p form of b6 which is more directly metabolic seems easily destroyed by stomach acid so the amount ingested can be quite variable depending on when it is taken. perhaps just after the meal is best with b vitamins since the ph is highest(least acid) then. stomach acid is most high just before a meal as there is least food in the stomach to buffer it then. some-one i know takes about 25 mg of the source naturals p5p daily which she says she needs in addition to the blackmores b complex.

b6 seems to increase the requirement for magnesium, and b6 and magnesium amplify the conversion of methionine to cysteine

liver provides not just iron but b12 and b6 so no wonder it is so anti-anemic.

george mateljan foundation   B-12 link

interesting about how intrinsic factor is impaired



vitamin C in excess is a pro-oxidant and overdosing is one of the most common supplement errors, though in gram amounts it does have antiviral activity, but i have never used it this way.

it is a useful reliever of oxidative stress in the liver and essential in the  eye  and brain

“The results indicated that bisphenol A induces oxidative stress in the liver of rats by decreasing the antioxidant enzymes. Co-administration of vitamin C reversed the effects of bisphenol A-induced oxidative stress in the liver of rats.”    pubmed

“The brain has special receptors, called GABA-type receptors, that help modulate the rapid communication between cells in the brain. GABA receptors in the brain act as an inhibitory "brake" on excitatory neurons in the brain. The ohsu researchers found that these GABA-type receptors in the retinal cells stopped functioning properly when vitamin C was removed.”   study

i don't think vit C does as much by itself, our biochemistries are designed to take in vitamin C as part of a subtle complex of nutritional factors in fruit, berries and vegetables, and stand alone vitamin C is not as effective, and vitamin C + flavanoid supplements seem not quite right ! maybe the dried flavonoids are biofilm promoting ?

i use nutralife ESTER C  tablets cut down to 15 - 30 mg, one to two times a day

this is a calcium ascorbate-threonate complex which i have found to be the best form of vitamin C !

very small, more frequent dosing of the ester C noticeably helps collagen and cartilage

this is particularly noticeable from a joint healing point of view

however overdoing vitamin C causes  LUTS

siderocalin  binds iron

vitamin C in larger amounts is laxative, especially in combination with vitamin E

a sort of strung out feeling/feeling grumpy can be from it being too long since taking vitamin C or having had a meal with vitamin C foods in

strung out can also be being viral or having biofilm toxins

it may pay to take vitamin C away from fats !

“without fat, vitamin C curbed the levels of two nitrosamines by a factor of between five and 1000.

And it completely eliminated the production of the other two, but when 10% fat was added, vitamin C actually boosted the production of nitrosamines (cancer causing!) between 8 and 140-fold”    study 

small oral doses of vitamin C are remedial for sepsis in my experience with mild appendicitus  study

what that study is saying is that anything that kicks the innate immune system in like viral or bacterial infection also inducts some degree of clotting


linus pauling was wrong about humans needing vitamin C in megadoses

in fact the red blood cells of the handful of vitamin C-defective species (higher primates, guinea pigs and fruit bats) are specially equipped to suck up the vitamin's oxidized form, L-dehydroascorbic acid.

once inside the blood cells, that dehydroascorbic acid is immediately reduced back into ascorbic acid (vitamin C) and can be efficiently carried through the bloodstream to the rest of the body

cooking and storage gives a mix of vitamin C and L-dehydroascorbic acid from food since L-dehydroascorbic acid is easily formed from L-ascorbic acid during storage and cooking processes

this is a much more optimal system than that which animals who can make vitamin C from glucose have, provided you are able to get small amounts of vitamin C throughout the day which fruit eating species like primates and fruit bats always have had

naomi taylor  universit� montpellier, france

most of the previous research on vit C is rubbish cause they used rats and mice which make their own vit C and don't have this process of L-dehydroascorbic acid to vit C conversion in their red blood cells

  iv vitamin C is a pro-oxidant  on my chelation  page

vitamin C protects mitochondria to the extent it foils apoptosis induced by chemotherapy drugs  study

"We recognized that

is the form of vitamin C that gets into cells, and that the tumor microenvironment allows cancer cells to convert more vitamin C into

," he said. "Inside the cell,

is converted back into ascorbic acid, and it gets trapped there and so is available to safeguard the cell."


vitamin C needs to be kept well away from taking copper as it combines with copper to make free radicals


Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) induced hydroxyl radical formation was measured in household drinking water samples using the hydroxyl radical sensitive probe coumarin-3-carboxylic acid. Vitamin C, a reducing agent that is commonly used as a food additive, triggered a significant hydroxyl radical generating reaction when added to the tap-water samples tested. The capacity of ascorbic acid to trigger hydroxyl radical formation in the tap-water samples was dependent on the flushing time before the samples were taken indicating that the water in the copper piping had been contaminated by copper ions. In line with this, high concentrations of copper were measured in the hydroxyl radical generating first-draw samples. Moreover, a strong correlation was found between the hydroxyl radical generation capacity seen in the coumarin-3-carboxylic acid based microplate assay and the DNA damage seen in an agarose gel assay using the pBluescript plasmid. In the water samples showing high capacity to hydroxylate coumarin-3-carboxylic acid, a rapid formation of the open circular form of the plasmid could also be seen indicating a copper assisted hydroxyl radical attack on the DNA. In conclusion, our results show that addition of vitamin C to household tap water that is contaminated with copper ions, results in Fenton type reactions that continuously generate harmful and reactive hydroxyl radicals.


J. writes:

"I tried him with a little ester C but he went really hyper/ silly with it, so have stopped it for now, thanks for your time and any advice"

my reply:

he shouldn't have gone like that with a small amount of ester C, something else in it? maybe it is a bit promoting of bad gut flora or urinary tract biofilm
i think it must be cause larger amounts are laxative and that means it must be feeding bacteria

it turns out that the fomulation (below) J. was using contained some dried herbs which would have been responsible for the hyper/silly

Ester-C ( calcium ascorbate) providing;

434mg ascorbic acid (vitamin C)
53mg calcium
5mg theonic acid
vegetarian cellulose capsule
viridian bilberry extract, organic alfalfa, spirulina blend


vitamin C is a necessary co-enzyme for the metabolic oxidation of tyrosine (sealock and goodland).

too much vitamin C will chelate selenium and selenium is needed to passivate mobilised heavy metals, don't give vitamin C and selenium together.

the importance of bioflavanoids

from the Nobel  Lecture  1937 by albert szent- gyorki

" At the time that I had just detected the rich vitamin content of the paprika, I was asked by a colleague of mine for pure vitamin C. This colleague himself suffered from a serious haemorrhagic diathesis. Since I still did not have enough of this crystalline substance at my disposal then, I sent him paprikas. My colleague was cured. But later we tried in vain to obtain the same therapeutic effect with pure vitamin C. Guided by my earlier studies into the peroxidase system, I investigated with my friend St. Ruszny�k and his collaborators Armentano and Bents�th the effect of the other link in the chain, the flavones. Certain members of this group of substances, the flavanone hesperidin (Fig. 5) and the formerly unknown eriodictyolglycoside, a mixture of which we had isolated from lemons and named citrin, now had the same therapeutic effect as paprika itself.

It is still too early on in our experience for us to make any definitive statements. But it does seem that these substances possess great biological activity. They influence most obviously the capillary blood vessels, whose permeability and resistance suffer gravely in many disease states. These dyes are able to restore the state of affairs to normal, and to judge by the first experiences, it seems that thesesubstances will enrich the doctor�s inventory with a really useful new weapon for him to fight illnesses with. Our experiments made it probable that certain members of this group possess vitamin-like properties. For this reason I called the substance vitamin P. "


copper, vitamin C, dehydroascorbic acid, hydrogen peroxide

" cellular vitamin C accumulation in the presence of copper"   shui-ming kuo et al

Under the cell-free condition, copper is known to oxidize ascorbic acid (the active form of vitamin C) and the event leads to the loss of vitamin C. However, the biological consequence of this interaction was never examined in the presence of cells. We demonstrated in intestinal epithelial cells that dehydroascorbic acid (the oxidized form of ascorbic acid), when generated from ascorbic acid in the presence of copper, can be efficiently transported into the cells and reduced back to ascorbic acid. We also observed in other types of cells the transport and intracellular reduction of dehydroascorbic acid in the presence of copper. In the presence of iron, a metal that also oxidizes ascorbic acid, we observed similar oxidation-related accumulation in intestinal cells. Other metals that do not interact with ascorbic acid had little effect on vitamin C transport. A nonmetal pro-oxidant, hydrogen peroxide, is known to oxidize ascorbic acid and we observed that the oxidation is also accompanied by an increased intracellular accumulation of vitamin C. The efficient coupling between dehydroascorbic acid transport and intracellular reduction could help to preserve the important nutrient when facing oxidative metals in the intestine.

my comment:

i think that recycling of vitamin C from dehydroascorbic acid certainly happens and that high vitamin C levels by lowering the hydrogen peroxide in the thyroid reduces thyroid hormone levels significantly



vitamin E should not be  taken  at the same time as omega six oils !

interestingly vitamin E  is needed  to prevent  a dramatic loss  of  “ lyso PLs ”  which help carry DHA from the liver to the brain !

my vitamin E bolus  protocol  for migraine  !

the half life of plasma alpha tocopherol is two to three days compared to gamma tocotrienol at 4.3 hours !

“ the  reason  for the comparatively short half-lives of tocotrienols in blood has to do with a liver protein called alpha-tocopherol transporter protein (ATTP).  vitamin E circulating in the bloodstream is taken up by the liver.  ATTP preferentially takes alpha-tocopherol out of the liver and secretes it back into the bloodstream.  because tocotrienols have a lower affinity for ATTP than tocopherols, they remain in the liver longer, increasing the chances they will be metabolized or excreted ”

it may be that there is no such thing as a one size fits all vitamin E supplementation protocol, that it really has to be tuned to fit your particular biochemistry, and needs !!!

there looks to be such a thing as vitamin E absorption  resistance  as a consequence of metabolic syndrome and aging !

high levels of lipids such as cholesterol and triglycerides keep the vitamin E tied up in the blood stream !

with the expansion of vitamin E formulations beyond d-alpha tocopherol into the alpha, beta,  gamma  and delta variants of the tocopherols and tocotrienols, supplementation has got more complex so i will attempt to give an overview first and what is being targeted ! : o)

the tocomins suprabio is a palm oil extract and has the natural palm oil ratios of the  gamma 9.4 : alpha 6.2 : delta 3.4 : beta 1  tocotrienols

the tocopherols in palm oil may be about  25  to  50%  gamma and the  rest  alpha !

i occasionally take a capsule of the jarrow toco-sorb which contains 375mg of tocomin suprabio !

rice bran  oil  has not much alpha tocotrienol which is a negative feature since it may help prevent  glutamate  induced neural cell death !

the ratios of the forms of vitamin E in rice bran oil are as follows

gamma trienol 37 : alpha pherol 34 : gamma pherol 18 : alpha trienol 8 : delta trienol 2 : delta pherol 2 : beta pherol 0.1%

  “ delta gold ”  which is an annatto extract is  90%  delta tocotrienol and  10%  gamma tocotrienol

annatto is the only tocopherol free source of tocotrienols !

alpha tocopherol offers anti viral, anti-oxidant and promotion of plasma membrane  repair

gamma tocopherol offers anti prostate cancer activity and protection against alzheimers !

however it is a cox-2 inhibitor which i have reservations about !

delta tocotrienol offers some protection against breast cancer and significantly increases white blood cells, neutrophils, lymphocytes and platelets by 1.5–2  fold  and is very good for the skin !

gamma tocotrienol helps with skin cancer or precancer and high doses have a chemotherapeutic action on mammary tumors !

alpha and gamma-tocotrienol, as well as gamma-tocopherol are the most important vitamin E forms in differentiating   alzheimers  and mild cognitive impairment cases from controls

“ higher total serum levels of vitamin E, and higher levels of γ-tocopherol, β-tocotrienol and total tocotrienols in particular, seemed to  protect  against memory disorders ”

i used to take the  solgar  100 or 400 iu  “d-alpha plus mixed tocopherols”,  two or three drops  (1/4 a capsule of the 100iu)  once  (25 iu - 33 iu)  a day

the capsule end is pricked with a needle and half the contents squeezed into the mouth, and then the capsule put in the fridge upright with the needle placed back in its original pierced hole

also in australia the blackmores 1000iu natural vitamin E is ok, although it's without the mixed tocopherols, that is, just plain d-alpha tocopherol......... !

you cut the very top of the capsule off and squeeze a drop or two out and that can last a week in the fridge put upright with the bottom end pushed into a hole in a bit of polystyrene !

in actual fact I am finding the plain d-alpha tocopherol by itself is the best for keeping migraine at bay, so am using the blackmores and have dropped the solgar !

i must have a creeping blood coagulation problem as i age and am effectively using it as an  anti-coagulant ,  since i would say i am having to take about 150 iu or more a day !

you need to take vitamin K to  compensate  for the vitamin E mediated reduction of vitamin K in the testis, kidney, brain  (depression)  and prostate  (menaquinones anticarcinogenic)

i think skin hyperthermia  (any area of the body !)  in combination with menaquinone vitamin K is very  successful  in significantly reducing prostate enlargement ! : o)

the liner in the top of the solgar bottle is paper, so once the inital seal is broken, the bottle is no longer moisture proof, so i tip the capusles into another bottle with a decent lid and put a dry  dessicant  as well

larger doses are laxative and can be used as a remedy for constipation

it's also a very good antioxidant to protect against sugar pulses, say if you eat a large plate of pasturised fruit like i do sometimes, then take the solgar sometime after the meal

this solgar 100 iu vitamin E also claims a smidgen of beta tocopherol, delta tocopherol and gamma tocopherol which are beneficial synergists and this is the vitamin E supplement i  (used to?)  prefer

also i used to occasionally take a few drops of the vrp  annatto  tocotrienols as being useful and also extremely good for making the skin silky soft and smooth !

the annatto formulation oxidises in the presence of moisture so the bottle needs to be kept refreshed with dry dessicants !

the vrp annatto tocotrienols is predomininantly delta tocotrienol which is very good for the skin and has the highest ORAC  (oxygen radical absorbance capacity)  value of all the vitamin E forms.

i think it's main problem is its perisability/oxidation !

alpha tocopherol helps repair  tears  in cell membranes and promotes  fluidity  of the membrane (more fluidity is a marker of less oxidative stress) and as such reduces red blood cell rupturing !

gamma tocopherol  (in palm, soybean and corn oil)  is protective against prostate cancer, however it is also associated with a higher risk of oseteoarthritis in the knee

the higher risk of osteoarthritis in the knee is very marked in african-americans and less so in caucasians

gamma and delta tocopherol confer an anti-cancer benefit (colon, lung, breast and prostate cancers) but alpha tocopherol doesn't

alpha   tocotrienol   protects  against strokes and is anti-neurodegenerative

this  study  says that increased blood levels of all forms of vitamin E reduces the risk of mild cognitive impairment and alzheimers disease in older adults and a balanced presence of different vitamin E forms may be necessary for neuroprotection

alpha-tocopherol supplementation can decrease plasma and tissue concentration of gamma and delta tocopherol, and compromise tissue delivery of alpha-tocotrienol

medium to high doses of stand-alone alpha-tocopherol supplements increase the risk of stroke

  gamma tocotrienol inhibits prostate cancer  and its development by causing apoptosis in the prostate cancer stem cells !

gamma tocotrienol also has anti-cancer effects against a wide range of human cancers

an interesting interview with   barrie tan   ( dr. tocotrienol ! )

“ Interestingly, a mixture of  (tocopherol-free)  delta and gamma-tocotrienol had lipid Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity  (ORAC)  values that were about 30 times greater than vitamin E  (as alpha-tocopherol),  and also slightly better than those of the more highly regarded antioxidants resveratrol and EGCG  (see Figure 5).  This is a good measure of tocotrienol's antioxidant properties”

eileen got a very painful first degree burn on her hand from falling and putting it on the wood burner to steady herself and she put oil from the solgar capsule  (d alpha tocopherol)  on her hand over three days and by day 4 the healing was going well

“ hardly sore now more itchy where the skin is pulled tight around the blisters ”

i assume that vit E on a scar turns up the fibroblast senescence talked about in this  study


burn injuries rapidly deplete vitamin E  study

“ An analysis of eight children with third-degree burns over much of their body found they lost almost half of their stored vitamin E in three weeks, even though they were being given about 150 percent of the recommended daily allowance of vitamin E and other nutrients in a high-calorie diet. ”

vitamin A  reduces  scarring ?

" when injury occurs, cells proliferate and migrate into the blood vessel, creating scar-like tissue. it can create blockages that impair blood flow "

eileen and myself have tried the source naturals  “gamma E 400”  which has a ratio of 3:1 gamma to alpha tocopherol and found it not satisfactory

vitamin e in the bottle needs a dry dessicant to help keep it potent

the soft gelatine capsules get softer when damp and stiffer when dry so that's a good way to tell how dry you are keeping it

its not that stable a molecule so degrades with time and should be kept in a cool dry place

i have read that there may be stability issues with mixed tocopherol formulations, the thompsons (nz) vitamin E (70% alpha tocopherol,  30%  beta, gamma & delta tocopherols) made me a bit migrainey and lethargic, most likely the tocopherols had degraded

a drop or two of vitamin e before taking copper, that's one or two drops of the 100iu solgar which might be about 10 - 20iu may be of assistance in reducing damage from the copper (especially the inorganic copper sebacate) to vitamin A and carotenes in the stomach

this would apply also to a lesser extent to the zinc L-monomethionine


just prick the end of the vitamin e capsule with a needle, squeeze two or three drops out directly into the mouth

you can put the needle back in and insert the capsule in a hole made in a small bit of polystyrene foam so the capsule with the needle in stands upright, then put that in the fridge to use the next day

the dilution of the vitamin e in the carrier oil is relatively constant between capsule sizes ! they just increase the amount of oil, like 200iu is double the size of 100iu.

so you can just cut the very tip of the top of a very long 1000 iu capsule, squeeze out say 1/20th and using abit of polystyrene with a hole pressed in it, store the capsule upright in the fridge !

freezing vitamin e seems to degrade the potency

the source naturals vitamin E vegagels have scd illegals in

the full capsule may be a bit laxative

small quantities like 30iu of vitamin e help ameliorate the fenton(iron) reaction in the gut which can often be an issue

too much vit e is laxative

in an extrapolation of a four year study of 77,000 people between 50 and 76, there was an additional 7% increase in lung cancer risk for every 150 iu taken per day over a decade. (dr. christopher slatore of the university of washington, seattle et al, 2008)

there is an interaction between vitamin K and vitamin E in the liver whereby as vitamin E increases, vitamin K decreases  study,  some antagonism not restricted to blood clotting

i am still about paranoid about gelatin capsules and mad cow disease. usually crunch the capsule in the mouth and chew around to remove all the contents and then spit the capsule out

the research seems a bit ambiguous on wether gelatin can have mad cow disease in

I am rediscovering that the d alpha tocopherol vitamin is much more significant than i thought since it potently antioxidises free radicals from high iron levels (which i have) and stimulates naive T cell production, that is, it has a potent anti viral action.

a spectrum of tocotrienols may have a more potent antiviral action however  study

the carotech "tocomin" which is a natural full spectrum palm tocotrienol/tocopherol complex oil suspension was used in the study


“ gamma-tocopherol quinone formed a compound which destroyed that cell. It did so by preventing proper protein folding in the cells, which causes a cellular response that is involved in a variety of human diseases, including diabetes and Parkinson's disease. ”

jiyan ma and david cornwell in this  article  are negative on gamma tocopherol compared to d-alpha tocopherol

“ Again, alpha tocopherol was more potent than was gamma tocopherol. Both alpha and gamma tocopherols increased NO generation and endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) activity; however, only gamma tocopherol increased eNOS protein expression ”


“ These results suggest that despite alpha tocopherols action as an antioxidant gamma tocopherol is required to effectively remove the peroxynitrite-derived nitrating species. ”   study

“ At nanomolar concentration, alpha-tocotrienol, not alpha-tocopherol, prevents neurodegeneration. On a concentration basis, this finding represents the most potent of all biological functions exhibited by any natural vitamin E molecule. ”

“ Micromolar amounts of tocotrienol suppress the activity of HMG-CoA reductase, the hepatic enzyme responsible for cholesterol synthesis. ”

“ Tocotrienols are thought to have more potent antioxidant properties than alpha-tocopherol ”

beta tocopherol reduces  alzheimers  risk

alpha and gamma tocopherol oxidise HDL, but protect VLDL and LDL     study

“ HDL is suggested to be responsible for the majority of reverse cholesterol transport in humans and is considered to be an atheroprotective molecule; however, when it becomes dysfunctional, for example, by oxidation, it loses these protective properties and may instead yield detrimental effects. ”


a who_knows post (june 06)

took 100 iu of blackmores alpha d tocopherol this morning and i feel it was protective from viruses on going to town late this afternoon

100iu is too much too take daily but is another anti viral supplement modulation

the things which are postively pro viral are iron and too much folapro i think

for migraine, vit e reduces blood platelet adhesion, but you will get rebound of course once vit e levels drop?


“ naive T cells exhibit the greatest age-related defect and show for the first time that supplemental vitamin E has direct immunoenhancing effect on naive T cells from old mice. ”  abstract

“ Supplemental vitamin E alleviates age-related defects in interleukin (IL)-2 production, T cell proliferation, and immune synapse formation. ”  abstract


the gamma form would appear to have its uses like being a scavanger of reactive nitrogen species and there will be synergies between the different forms, however there is a piece of research showing that the alpha tocopherol is the bodies preferred form.

"alpha tocopherol is more abundant in sunflower and wheat germ oils, whereas corn and soybean oils contain predominantly gamma-tocopherol"  from

its very important not to overdo any one form of vitamin e as it unbalances the ratios of other forms in the body. there's eight forms in all, alpha-, beta-, gamma-, delta- tocopherol/tocotrienols.

once the bottle is opened, keeping the pricked capsule and bottle in the freezer really reduces the cost.

i prick the end of the capsule and just squeeze a drop into my mouth, the remainder of the capsule should be kept in the freezer or you can share it around the family

vrp annatto or delta gold tocotrienols... brilliant anti-oxidant, selenium synergist, i don't take every day though, just when i feel the need for some anti-oxidant action like eating liver whith its high iron needing anti-oxidising. only seem to take very occasionally or not at all now. not at all basically, though there is something to the tocotrienols.

ladies! vitamin e and efas are brilliant for the skin but be careful with vitamin e. there are eight forms of vitamin e and they seem to modulate other things as well, sometimes adversely. the forms above seem ok in moderation, i did take the jarrow toco-life for a while which has a very high d - gamma - tocotrienol content which is super brilliant for the skin but seems to reduce bile (and hence reduce heavy metal and organic toxin removal from the liver) so its really only one that should be taken very occasionally if at all.


the vit e reduces blood platelet stickiness so if capillary strength was fragile it could cause nose bleeds

vit e may also lower blood pressure, feeling faint can be a sign of that

dana says that low copper can cause nose bleeding

vitamin e is a very significant modulator of blood platelet stickiness, whereas olive oil tends to modulate (reduce) viscosity; both of which are very signficant if you are myeloproliferative




vitamins A & D  promote  each others receptors

each vitamin  (A & D)  stimulated the production of its own receptor.

Remarkably, however, vitamin D caused a 3-fold increase in the production of vitamin A's receptor and vitamin A caused a 3-fold increase in vitamin D's receptor!

this mutual synergy also promotes the conversion of pancreatic stem cells into fully functional insulin-producing beta-cells !

i am occasionally taking the thompsons 10,000iu retinyl palmitate, say one to two capsules when you think you need it, eg. extra immunity when going to town !

my experience is that the potency of vitamin A degrades with time and it does not pay to go beyond the expiry date !

cooked beef liver has 320 iu per gram of vitamin A, so 25,000iu is equivalent to 78 grams  (2.75 oz)  of liver which i think illustrates that we are used to these sorts of amounts in our diet and the rda may be on the low side

any high dose vitamin A regime  (often multi vits surprisingly)  should be discontinued probably at least a month before conceiving, but please enure that you are getting sufficient vitamin A from the diet or a low dose vitamin A supplement as insufficient vitamin A is also a cause of birth defects

i would imagine that the first days and weeks of conception are particularly susceptible to vitamin A overdose issues, because of the extreme rapidity of cell division and possible attack by the immune system on this very rapid fetal cell division which could be mistaken for cancer or a pathogen.

vitamin A  significantly  reduces the number of red blood cells produced by stem cells !


large, or even possibly medium doses of vitamin A are tetragenic to developing fetuses, that is, they can cause birth deformities.

even high levels of supplemented vitamin A pre-conception  (a week?, a month?)  may have this effect

“ vitamin A is known to be necessary for embryonic development precisely because it helps to differentiate stem cells, pushing them to become required tissue. In the same way, taking too much vitamin A can result in birth defects ”

V. writes:   (may 2007)

“ I had 4 children. Two girls and two boys. My boys were born between the girls.Soon after my oldest son was born he was found to have a heart problem. We had to fly to Mayo Clinic on an emergency flight as he was going into heart failure. He had a malfunction of the heart and was treated and was fine. Then 4 years later I had another son. He had a hole in his heart and very narrow valves. He had heart surgery to correct the problem when he was eleven months old. The doctors were curious as to why I had two boys with heart problems. I also wondered, and read soon after my second son was born, that taking supplemental vitamin A was causing birth defects and heart abnormalities. That really rang a bell, as I had been taking 25,000 IU's of vitamin A throughout both pregnancies. I researched it, as I do for many health matters.

I was alarmed at what I read and found that pregnant women should not get more than 8,000 IU's per day. I've since read the warnings on the internet. I never told my doctors this, as I don't know that they would have known at that time the dangers. (It was new found medical research, 21 years ago) But I have always felt guilty about this and wondered if it was because of me supplementing with this vitamin. I have always been a researcher in alternative methods and the medical side. Now I'm almost sure that what I took was vitamin A derived from fish oil, it was the Now brand. When I got pregnant again, I made sure I did not take the supplement and I had a healthy girl, with a healthy heart. My first daughter, my oldest was fine also and I did not supplement with A, and I smoked throughout that pregnancy. Of course, I am not positively sure about this being because of the vitamin A, but it always stuck in my mind.”


however adequate levels of vitamin A are also necessary for pregnancy and fetal development, current research shows that retinoic acid signaling is crucial for proper development of the early embryonic mesoderm.

vitamin A promotes stem cell differentiation and vascularization which is an interesting complex effect in terms of cancer

“vitamin A pushes breast cancer to form blood vessel cells"  study

copper and zinc destroy vitamin A and betacarotene in the stomach

vitamin A and carotenes are very fragile and easily rendered useless by oxidation

this is not just in supplements about also in foods and especially just eaten food in the stomach

copper is particularly bad bad for this but so is zinc (i do not recommend an inorganic zinc btw like citrate or oxide)

however taking a bit of ester C (50mg for an adult?) after a meal and before taking the copper or zinc seems to dramatically help preserve the vitamin A and carotenes in the food as well other food factors including b's

vit C acts as an antioxidant in the stomach and most likely vit e is a help to

i also suspect that this is a more general issue than just people taking supplements because of the extensive use of copper piping for water now and the copper loading will be having a strong oxidising effect when used as cooking water and for drinks

with depletion of vit a and carotenes your immune system function just gets depressed and you get viral all the time with exposure, cfs'y


NHK labs sell dry retinyl acetate powder for commercial or pet/veterinarian/farm use, but not for personal use

dry retinyl acetate powder is also used in anti-wrinkle creams to good effect, some women make up their own special creams

the NHK labs dry retinyl acetate appears to be the same as the 'allergy A' retinyl acetate only formulation (no longer on the market), but in a powder form and not capsules and comes in 100 or 500 gram packs, which is really a bulk amount

the european vitamin supplier DSM sell retinyl acetate in 25 kg boxes for about USA $800 a box, the type 250cws/a may be ok, being water soluble and with dl vitamin e as an antioxidant and not ethoxyquin

you need to read up on how to use and dry dessicants to keep it dry once you open the bottle, the powder should be crunchy and not at all soft or soggy, see  drying dessicants

high doses can give a feeling of stomach fullness and being on the edge of vomiting

what is special about dry retinyl acetate, is it is so rapidly taken up by the body compared to other forms of vitamin A, that the viruses get surprised by speed of it and are not prepared, so get killed much more effectively

retinyl acetate may also be helpful for myeloproliferative conditions (essential thrombocythemia?), promoting removal of problematic red blood cells and perhaps other components in the spleen

retinyl palmitate is the main form of vitamin A used in supplements because it keeps better, shelf life is an issue with retinyl acetate, but the palmitate is not as effective an anti-viral

however the “mycelized vitamin A”, which is mycelized palmitate is pretty good

retinyl acetate is more effective against some viruses than others

“mycelized vitamin A” made by ethical nutrients/metagenics is probably the next best thing to retinyl acetate, it is not as good as fresh retinyl acetate, but you have to take what you can get

i will take say a ¼ ml of mycelized vitamin A when viral or sometimes about two to six or seven hours after sunbathing or uvb lamp use

retinyl acetate is degraded by acid in the stomach i think so taking a bit of cream helps and take away from acid fruit

actually i am not 100% sure about retinyl acetate being degraded by stomach acid

not sure about optimal absorbtion, maybe 1/4 of an hour after a meal, maybe three or four hours after a meal? cream or fat seems to be needed for absorbtion as it is a fat soluble vitamin

in the early days of message boards and devin

s enzymes (2001) the 'allergy A' was a mainstay and when twinlabs discontinued it (2005) in favour of their 'allergy A and D', all the boards and kids went backwards because the vitamin D in the formulation acts as a short term immune supressor and counteracts the immediate effect of the retinyl acetate.

the main thing with dosing is that you have to measure out tiny amounts of powder

to do this i have a plastic airline coffee spoon that when level full is 1/4 of the volume of an ordinary level teaspoon

apparently in the usa there are similar very small chocolate or coco drink spoons but i am not familar with those

anyway with one of these very small spoons you use about 1/4 to 3/4 by volume of the level airline spoon depending on the virus and need, for kids adjust down the amount by weight, like half the weight of an adult is half the amount.

i can take quite large doses of retinyl acetate at a time with a virus, like 3/4 of an airline spoon at the upper end and that is 3/16th of a level teaspoon or a bit less than 1/5th of a level teaspoon, but this is migraine territory (375,000 iu! 1 gram = 500,000iu)

i really don't think in terms of a daily dose, i just aim to snuff a virus if have been exposed or get one

i think actually its quite important not to give it like a daily supplement, but save it for when its needed so that you can give higher doses without exceeding a weekly 'iu' budget

i think it may be best not taken on an empty stomach and may be more effective if a broad spectrum of b vits is taken a bit earlier

the dunaliella betacarotene seems to augment its effect and and retinyl acetate/mycelized A really needs the synergy with germanium taken about 5? minutes before

ginger tea made with cut up fresh ginger and brought to a simmer for a couple of minutes, and then allowed to steep with the cooking element off, may be a surprising anti-viral synergist, though would need to be taken a bit away from the ra

if i take too much vit a i get headachy, though actually with a virus its better to have a bit of a heachache than the virus

it does increase intra-cranial pressure for a day so i use it sparingly being prone to migraine, but when its needed its needed and in fact is consumed by the virus, so taking it when viral, intra-cranial pressure is not such an issue

viruses seem to consume retinyl acetate so you can take more without getting a headache

but some viruses retinyl acetate is not so effective against

vitamin A/retinyl acetate increases intracranial pressure in the brain

i read a message board post of a mother with a child on the autistic spectrum who put her child on a high dose protocol of retinyl acetate (which i am against and advised her not to) and it caused high pitched screaming by the child - intracranial pressure pain?

the screaming stopped when she stopped dosing

i find that very large doses like 100,000 - 200,000iu (adult dose) taken very occasionally with a virus seem to work best, rather than a daily dose

however you have to be very careful to keep up the vitamin D with long term retinyl acetate or vitamin A use, as without the vitamin D the bones break more easily and may splinter, and for other reasons

    merck   on vitamin A toxicity

“ too much vitamin A  shuts down  the body's trained immunity, opening the door to infections to which we would otherwise be immune ”

retinyl acetate needs re-dried dessicants about once every two or three weeks if you are using it regularly depending on how damp the weather is, or it looses its crunchy state and gets 'chewy' which is not what you want

also supplements in general and retinyl acetate especially need to be kept in a cool place preferably 25C or lower or the dessicants de-gas moisture at about 35C

large retinyl acetate doses strip vitamin D out

the major uses of retinyl acetate are in multi-vitamins and minerals and animal feed supplementation. unfortunately the encapsulations used in retinyl acetate for animal feed really ramp biofilm in the gut.


R. writes:

Andrew, you recommend non-daily doses of ra, but that seems to be specifically for anti viral purpose. I am trying to substitute CLO with fish oil, vit d and ra. How much would you advise? Thank you

my reply:

dunno, in fact i seem to take quite a bit like maybe one or two hundred thousand iu a time when badly viral

i think you need to keep a weather eye on vitamin D and keep it balanced up to offset the bone destructive effect of the vit A and maximise the mutal receptor promotion synergy that the two have

but i seem ok

really the daily approach is wrong with retinyl acetate, you need substantial retinyl acetate holidays to help the bone to recover


16th jan 07:  i took almost a full airline spoon of ra (400,000iu?) last night about three hours after a meal which is optimal absorption i think, more so than an entirely empty stomach

really grinds the brain, headachy, used my vitamin D lamp the next day to help offset the effects of the large amount of vitamin A.

it was not a pleasant experience


i find that too much retinyl acetate gives me a bit of a headache but actually a bit of a headache is better then a virus but too much is toxic

i have taken these descriptions of too much vitamin A below from  danasview

the 2 day 400,000iu protocol she promotes imo is questionable, better lower doses with b vits to magnify the effect.

Symptoms of vitamin A toxicity (from dana's vitamin A  page)

Bulging fontanelles (infants)
Bone pain or swelling
Craniotabes (infants and children)
Skin and hair changes
hair loss
cracking at corners of the mouth
Decreased appetite
Poor weight gain (infants and children)

The most important thing is to watch for symptoms of A overdose: headache, nausea, dry scaly skin, vertigo, blurred vision and erythema or rash. Serum calcium will be elevated, as hypervitaminosis A features hypercalcemia.

For my kids, toxicity symptoms have included dry and itchy rash, headache, upset stomach, and cracks in the corners of the mouth. I have read a few accounts of children alternating between lethargy and hyperactivity. (end of dana's account)


"The active component of the acne drug Accutane is 13-cis-retinoic acid, and it is highly teratogenic for the developing central nervous system. Very little is known, however, regarding the effect of this drug on the adult brain. Regions of the brain that may be susceptible to 13-cis-retinoic acid are those that continue to generate new neurons. In the adult mouse, neurogenesis is maintained in the hippocampus and subventricular zone. This report demonstrates that a clinical dose (1 mg/kg/day - equivalent of 150,000iu for a 50kg adult?) of 13-cis-retinoic acid in mice significantly reduces cell proliferation in the hippocampus and the subventricular zone, suppresses hippocampal neurogenesis, and severely disrupts capacity to learn a spatial radial maze task. The results demonstrate that the regions of the adult brain where cell proliferation is ongoing are highly sensitive to disruption by a clinical dose of 13-cis-retinoic acid."

this is probably an issue with retinyl acetate as well, be a question of trading off viral damage against neural cell proliferation destruction, i notice i don't take retinyl acetate unless i have to.


the 'ethical nutrients' mycel vitamin A appears to be useful, but not as good as the retinyl acetate, several drops before and after viral exposure seem to be reasonably effective.

the mycellised form of vitamin A seems to hit the blood in a step fashion like the retinyl acetate (though slower absorbed than the retinyl acetate) which is faster than the viruses can defend against.

vitamin A can kill viruses by contact

so retinyl acetate or mycellised a in the blood can kill viruses but don't really help against viruses in cells except perhaps by inducing apotheosis (cell death), but msm seems also to help against viruses and is a valuable adjuct but be careful of msm destroying vitamin A as msm is quite oxidising and should be taken well away from vitamin A or carotenes.

i don't like the source naturals vitamin A vision support (may have stability issues once the bottle is opened)

the country life dry vitamin a maybe ok, is 5000iu betacarotene and 5000iu retinyl palmitate

twinlabs allergy A, part capsule or full capsule depending on if you have a virus or not............. if you are taking too much it makes you cranky.....................if you are ill, taking it just before bed can be helpful................ when you have a virus and need vitamin A you can just soak it up without it making you cranky, but if you don't need it, too much makes you cranky, the immune system must need something to work on or it may displace into other areas like demyelination of nerves or attacking the insulin islest in the pancreas.

NOTE: i am not happy with the potato starch filler in the allergy A and am looking at the source naturals vitamin A palmitate 10,000iu vision support. however the allergy A seems to work better, it may be that being a powder it can ramp the immune system quickly for a surprise attack.

the 'allergy A' which is RETINYL ACETATE seems to be the most effective anti-viral form of vitamin A and the only stand alone product with it in is the twinlabs 'allergy A' (now discontinued). if you know of another product please email me. the twinlabs 'allergy A and D' is not as effective, maybe because the addtion of the vitamin D degrades the retinyl acetate in storage in the capsule or the vitamin D itself slows the ramp action of the retinyl acetate as it is absorbed.

however with my frequent diluted lugols (aqueous iodine) protocol i am finding that the twinlabs 'allergy A and D' may be adequate, but you can feel the 'D' is not one of the good ones.

a woman i know with a depressed immune system had her skin cancers disappear with taking the 'allergy A' and 200 µg of methylselenocysteine a day for several months. that included a superfical melanoma that had been continuing to grow. it woke me up to how much cancer is an immune system failure.

a post on who_knows (12th april 05) titled 'Staying ahead of Virus'

We've just had our first bout of bad flu for the season, I gave us all 3 lots of Twinlab Allergy a and NutriCology Germanium spread over a 36 hr period each lot 12hrs apart, That seems to oust it

I would usually just give us all the 1 of each but have tried this a couple of times recently with a severe virus and this seems to work better.

a who_knows post (27th august 04) titled 'kicked the flu in a day'

its funny how the very damp wether corresponded with getting the flu, must be very stressful that cold moisture. last night was like fairy land with the mist and the moon.................

anyway i was feeling like dying this morning and with allergy A capsules, and several quarters of the source naturals copper sebacate spaced throughout the day and taking a bit of the blackmores b vit complex and a nutricology germanium capsule am feeling pretty recovered

an enzymesandautism post (16/5/04) titled 'oddly'

"the twinlabs allergy A and D seems better given before bed or even best if given half way through the night if you wake up! a bit of cream may help it be absorbed better."

an enzymesandautism post (21/5/02) titled 'too much vitamin A enlarges the tongue?'

"took about 50,000 iu in ten thousand iu slices over several days and think the tongue became slightly beefy, just a bit larger.

that might indicate that vitamin A runs out panothetic acid as a co-factor?

not keen on very high or sustained moderately high vitamin A doses."

[later] copper is important for shifting vitamin A out of the liver

an autism mercury post (22/5/04)

My son will also start his visual stims again [and lose language and social interest] now, if I give ANY vitamin A beyond maybe 1000 IU per week, or if I miss his other anti-virals (olive leaf extract, lauricidin ed.), or if I don't give anti-yeast support with the anti-virals, etc etc etc. Dana

my reply:

........ from your sons reaction to 1000 iu i would take it he has an abnormally high vitamin A levels (from a very high loading dose ed.) which may be biasing the immune system in an anti viral fashion, but my own experience of high vitamin A doses is it feels like hell.

my experience of vitamin A supplementation is it is best not to load, also take an anti viral synergist like germanium if necessary and have the thyroid minerals adequate and get some cooked carrot in the diet and a touch of cream........... and use occasionally rather than all the time and be aware that the level needed to get say an effect say with tolerating light or some anti viral benefit are often quite penal in terms of not feeling pleasant or toxicity.



resorption means the bone losing calcium and other minerals (reabsorbed by the body) with there being some servo mechanism to mine calcium from the bone to keep blood calcium up.

a who_knows post titled 'vitamin A promotes bone resorption, vitamin D inhibits it' (july 06)

the bone surface is not static but is being constantly remodeled by osteoclasts which remove bone and osteoblasts which fill in the removed hollows with collagen which then infuses with calcium and other bone minerals

vitamin A promotes osteoclasts and bone loss (resorption) and vitamin D inhibits osteoclasts

there was a recent study done on this and i think its why twinlabs

took the allergy A off the market and left the 'allergy A and d' as its retinyl acetate product

i think the vit d is needed, but has to be separated from the retinyl acetate to keep the anti-viral effect of retinyl acetate

there was a study that showed vit d did not have any effect on the bone mass of well nourished individuals, that needs co-synergists like vitamin K imo

collagen is also important for bone building, could be very important


adequate dietary calcium and a working thyroid inhibit resorption of bone

so bone is used as a calcium reservior and if blood calcium is adequate then bone resorption is turned down

i am getting plenty of, even too much calcium and glutamate from cheeses

i think the amount of vitamin A tolerated before bone resorption becomes an issue is very plastic and if you have decent collagen/broth/trace minerals and calcium and phosporous in the diet, and adequate vit d or skin d, then quite high levels of vit a in my occasional dose system may be tolerated

however you have to be very careful to keep up the vitamin D with long term retinyl acetate or vitamin A use, as without the vitamin D the bones break more easily and may splinter.  study

like my vit a intake is quite high at the moment and my bones are good, but i do have quite a bit of wallaby/possum broth which is the whole carcass rendered down

low vitamin D may increase bone turnover and mass loss

strontium increases deposition of new bone osteoblasts and reduces the resorption of bone by osteoclasts


effect of vit a megadoses on bone erosion

D. writes

"We did the 400,000 IU megadose (mycel A ed.) over the weekend. All seems to be going well but I noticed his morning urine PH for the past 2 days has been 7.5 I believe the desired normal PH is 5.6 - 6.8 Before the Vit A it was always around 5.0 - 5.5 Does anyone know what this could mean? I have no idea if it's a positive or negative sign. Thanks.

my reply

i think it means that the high vit a dose is mobilising calcium from the bones into the blood and making it a bit alkaline



J. writes:


All my kids now have a strong ammonia smell in their stool. The only thing that has changed in their diet is the addition of yogurt; however, Louise (the baby) has not had yogurt but also has ammonia-smelling stool.

The other changes are running out of zinc (Kirkman's brand which is legal but probably an inorganic form). And Louise is now off of her Brainchild vitamins. She just began Nu-Thera, but that will only last until I can work through the vitamin part of Andrew's compendium (right now we are working on zinc).

OK. So the only other thing that I think could be the issue is a virus. We have all been "under the weather" since the weather changed (runny noses, sneezing, sore throats, etc.).

Bowels have gone bad real fast. Beautiful BMs are now yellowish-green, ammonia-smelling tragedies. Louise currently has diarrhea filled with grit. Yesterday it was bright yellow. Today it is light green. Can this be attributed to a virus attacking the liver? I am primarily wondering if a virus can bring about the ammonia problem? I am a little stumped if it is not.

J. writes again (after giving some retinyl acetate to Louise):

This evening Louise developed a red rash (not raised) going up her torso. Am I right in thinking that this may be vitamin A toxicity (approximately 20,864 IU for 24 lb. child)?

my reply:

it will be the vit a but exactly what is happening is hard to say

an immune response of some sort? inflamation?

not like a measles rash at all?

could be overactivity of the t cells in the skin giving a psorasis like response?

any history of fungal skin infections

J.'s reply:

It doesn't look inflamed, just "mottled." It definitely is not raised in the slightest bit either.

> not like a measles rash at all?

I don't really know what a measles rash looks like, but I suppose it could be. Christine and Brian were vaccinated (a fact that I loathe), so they never had an outbreak that I could observe. Louise was not vaccinated, but could have had "horizontal exposure" from bathing with her brother and sister who have very high measle titers (which I am told means they are currently fighting the virus from their vaccinations).

> could be overactivity of the t cells in the skin giving a psorasis like response?

I don't really know what psorasis looks like, but Louise definitely has a mercury load which I am told contributes to psorasis. Her rash isn't chaffing or oozing or infection-puss colored. It is just a mottled red rash, kind of red spots all meshing together up one side of her torso and below her belly button (diaper line). I just checked on it again. The red has faded so much that you can hardly tell she has a rash at all.

> any history of fungal skin infections

She certainly has a history of skin problems. When we had her eczema cultured, both the fungal and bacterial cultures came back negative which is why they told us it was only eczema. But the eczema was so bad . . . a cycle of inflammation, turning puss-yellow, oozing, chaffing, clearing, then all over again. She looked like a burn victim. People would stop me all the time and ask if she had been burned somehow.

She had about 20 doctors and students come in to see her "case" when we came. It was the worst case of eczema they had ever seen, so they took lots of pictures and had a conference about it. All that conference yielded was an "eczema diagnosis" and two steroid prescriptions (which I did not fill). I was livid to say the least since I had brought her there for help not to serve as a "case study." But that is another story for another day. :)

I will say that her eczema was at it's worst when she had very bad yeast and bacterial overgrowth in her gut. She also had very bad allergies to egg, coconut oil, and dairy (which she is not getting anymore). So does this help you put some pieces together?

She seems fine right now. The rash is barely visible. How should I respond? Do I never give her the RA again or just back off on the amount?

Eileen replies:

I've looked at vitamin A toxicity rash descriptions in the past myself and they appear to be a very noticably dry & quite scaley raised looking rash which doesn't sound like your daughters Louise's rash at all,

Just thought this study might help...Louise

A case of hypervitaminosis A in a 43-year-old woman is presented.

The patient had only dermatologic symptoms. The dermatitis had resemblance to contact dermatitis or pellagra, Dry scaley rash.

The patient had been eating 100,000 I.U. of vitamin A daily every 2 months for approximately 15 months. The dermatitis disappeared slowly after stopping the intake of vitamin A.

PMID: 7152899 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I sometimes read the LDN autism message board and have seen referances to a very similar rash to what she has presented with and as LDN seems to bring on an immune response in takers of it and reading your post makes me wonder strongly if thats what is happening to her re measles?

If she is not experiencing fully blown measles she might have less of a rash would also be possibility I'd consider, It really sounds like a viral rash as opposed to any skin complaint altho thats just imo I'm certainly no expert but have been reading message boards for quite awhile and seen very similar symptoms in other kids using either vit A, LDN virastop etc posted on other boards you could read them and compare, Enzymes and autism, LDN autism and other messageboards.

As Janet says straight lemon juice really seems to help in some aspects of virus like settling the gut or stools, I've also tried it and it sometimes helps a lot.

J. replies (to eileen):

If you are correct about Louise purging a virus (possibly measles), then wouldn't this be a good thing? Should I continue with this vitamin A dosage until I see no further evidence of "purging viruses"? What is the recommended plan of action for something like this? She shows no indications of this bothering her. Yesterday she was very happy and active. Her bowel did improve. It was formed and very dark green with no smell of ammonia ( a switch from bright yellow, rank-smelling diarrhea filled with grit).

J writes:

Hey all!

Well, I tried Eileen's suggestion of giving the same amount of RA today with all the kids. They all get some cod liver oil as well (I don't have the compendium vitamin D yet so they still get CLO . . .will get there). So between the two vitamin A sources. Everyone got 20, 864 IU. Christine (40 lb.) also got one capsule of the betacarotene. Brian (36 lb.) got one capsule of the beta carotene. Louise (24 lb.) got one drop of a capsule of the beta carotene. I gave her so little because she seemed a bit orange yesterday after taking in a half-capsule. Here is the story:

Seemed fine for most of the day. She was a tad bit whiny. Then she got rather hyper in the evening. Her bowel was small, dark brown and very impacted. There was no smell of ammonia. Now she is in bed with an upset stomach. She says she might vomit, but she also is quite a drama queen so I can't be certain this is not simply a ploy for not going to bed.

He seemed great today. He did get a little hyper and aggressive this evening too (but not significantly). His bowel was pretty good. It was formed and dark green. However, it did have a few sections that smelled of ammonia (although not a strong smell). He said he feels fine.

She had a terrific day . . . spontaneously waving to strangers, good color in her face, really affectionate, very agreeable for most of the day. Her bowel was fantastic. It was formed, dark brownish-green. There was no smell of ammonia. She had no more rashes today. The only thing is it seemed she had some nasal congestion this evening.

Could I get some opinions about this. I think I will dose Brian and Louise again tomorrow since I saw some improvement with them. But I am confused about Christine. Would her upset stomach be vitamin A toxicity related, or is she "killing off a virus"? Can you get toxic from 2 days of 20,864 IU

my reply:

ra works better without vit d so i would not give cod liver oil the same day or the day before the ra is being given

in actual fact cod liver oil is not advised (actually illegal) on BCD

also dose by weight you might try double for Christine

ra needs some fat or cream in the stomach to be absorbed

J. writes:

Christine just came down stairs with her empty "throw-up" bucket. She said she didn't need it because she drank a lot of water and her stomach doesn't hurt anymore. Any comments or suggestions?



the placenta may have orginally been a parasite (evolutionarily speaking, its genes must have been grafted in) so hyper excitation of the immune system likely makes it susceptible to auto-immune attack

it actually produces a small protein called placental NKB as well as other proteins which contain the molecule phosphocholine

phosphocholine is used by filarial nematodes, a type of parasitic worm, to escape host immune systems by cloaking their presence

so i would say high vitamin a doses do reduce menstrual flow, and conversely high menstrual flow "menorrhagia" is a sign of vitamin A deficiency and/or a suppressed and skew immune system


"A deficiency of vitamin A may be a contributing factor in the menorrhagia of adult women. A deficiency of vitamin A impairs enzyme activity and hormone production in the ovaries of animals and serum levels of vitamin A have been found to be lower in women with menorrhagia than in healthy women.

In this study vitamin A was used as a treatment in 40 women who had diagnosed menorrhagia as a result of a diverse array of causes, In the group who recieved 60,000iu of vitamin A for period of 35 days, menstruation returned to normal in 23 women (57.5%)for a period of at least 3 months.

A significant decrease in the amount of blood or a reduction in the duration of the menses or both was obtained in 14 women (35%) The vitamin A was ineffective in 3 of the women (7.5%) The overall result with vitamin A therapy showed that 92.5% of the 40 cases of menorrhagia were cured or alleviated.

the above from the 'Women's Encyclopedia of natural health' by Tori Hudson.


this is an excellent broad spectrum carotene and seems to be needed to balance up vitamin A if you are taking it, not necessarily at the same time.

just seems to work better as an anti-viral with retinyl acetate

it used to be available here in australia as blackmores betacarotene, but they have discontinued the product

this  product  may be ok (etailer unkown to me)

dunaliella salina is an algae that grows in the dead sea, though is grown in asia as well and contains Beta Carotene, Alphacarotene and Xanthophylls like Zeaxanthin, Cryptoxanthin and Lutein.

also has caroteniods/xanthopylls to help with eye health

the dunaliella betacarotene, perhaps with vit e seems to make for better visual acuity and perhaps a more flexible lens

i think dunaliella produces the carotenoids to protect it from uv damage in the dead sea which is where it originally came from

"There are over 600 carotenoids in the food we eat," says Dr. Donald S. Fong, a California ophthalmologist who has done research at the National Institutes of Health on the importance of nutrients in retinal diseases. "So if you supplement with high doses of any single one, you block the absorption of other carotenoids you may need. And, in addition, you might increase the risk of disease in other parts of the body."

dunaliella may be useful for hair loss

i don't actually take duniella now and even when i took it, it wasn't for long so i don't know how useful it is, or even if it can be taken for long periods


betacarotene broken in half forms two vitamin A molecules, but if it is broken in a different place (by processes not well understood) some of the molecules produced antagonize vitamin A by inhibiting activation of the retinoic acid receptor by retinoic acid


these findings might explain the outcome of a well-known clinical trial that has left scientists puzzled for years

in that trial, people at high risk for lung cancer - smokers and asbestos workers - were given massive doses of beta-carotene over a long period of time in an attempt to lower that risk

the trial ended early because more supplemented participants developed cancer than did those who received no beta-carotene.


for vitamin D, i use a combination of oral vitamin D capsules, my homebuilt compact UVB lamp, the sun and mushrooms i have  irridated  myself

one or two drops from the blackmores 1000iu capsules gives 110 to 220 iu of D3, i now take about 220 to 330 iu daily, except in summer when i get my vitamin D from about 6 minutes sunbathing !

the best way to take vitamin D is not the medical  “bolus”  dose ,  but to take D3 daily to maximise its steroid effect which will help with the joint pain !

for a steriod effect, if taking a high dose there may be benefit in further  dividing the dose  down to several times a day, what the actual dose is you have to work out as everyone is affected differently !

you can pierce a hole in the top of the soft capsule with a pin and squeeze as many drops as necessary directly into your mouth each time you go to take the vitamin D !

intially take a capsule, squeeze all the drops out counting them so in the case of the blackmores capsules, 1000iu divided by nine drops is about 110 iu per drop !

it's important to be able to tune doses fairly precisely with vitamin D and indeed all supplements, once you know how many iu/micrograms per drop you can do this !

you make a matching hole size of the capsule in some polystyrene and store it in that in the fridge, hole side upwards bit like an egg in an egg carton !

you may need to put the capsule in the fridge a day beforehand to allow it to become soft enough to be squeezed !

it can be taken mid-afternoon to get some effect from it at say 4am the next morning to get the synergy from strontium mobilization, if i take the  strontium  then  (4am!)  as a sleep aid !

i eat quite a bit of pasturized fruit and cream in the evening and have to watch that the sugar peak from the fruit doesn't co-incide with the immune suppressing peak of vitamin D or i get urinary tract pain!

it may be that some vitamin D binds to the inside skin of the gelatine capsule, so, if i am seeking the maximum amount of vitamin D from the capsule, i will take and eat the whole capsule !

a whole capsule  (1000iu)  is also helpful for  sleep  !

in fact when i was experimenting with the uvb irridation of mushrooms i have taken maybe 200,000 iu at meals of D2 and yes it made me sleepy !

pretty well dropped me off i think !

there is an enervation phase of about 5 and a half hours after taking the vitamin D followed by a lull, so you can use that and take vitamin D about 5 to 8 hours before bed if you have trouble going to sleep, but no later as you don't want an immune suppressed gut overnight or on going to bed !

definitely don't take vitamin D within two ? and a half hours before bedtime !

some people may need more vitamin D, especially if biofilm has damaged the epithelial tips of the villi or they are  overweight !

this  study  says 2000iu a day reduces leaky gut  (decreases intestinal permeability and inflammation)  !

supplementation of D3 between different vitamin D binding protein  genotypes  can give  40%  different calcidol levels!

vitamin D2 deprecates D3 levels by  50%

however genotype differences in the vitamin D binding protein do not affect the calcidol levels induced by vitamin D2 !

  “ a much more rapid decline of serum calcitrol in the vitamin D2 treated subjects after 3 days seem to reflect a substantially more rapid metabolism or clearance of the vitamin D2 metabolite ”

D2 and D3 are somewhat different in effect and need to be mixed and matched a bit, D3 imo is the better form, but D2 has a therapeutic value, which is why i  irridate  shiitake mushrooms

also, having high levels of iron in your liver oxidises the vitamin D stored and processed there, so needing large amounts of vitamin D may be an indication of this problem for which i recommend blood  donation  !

my own experience of making 10 successive donations and getting my iron quite low  (Hb 130)  is that the old amounts of sun, lamp and capsules of vitamin D that i used to do, knock me about too much now and i am being quite cautious about how much i take or get  (ed. 2/1/13)

  “ obese and overweight women who lost more than 15 percent of their weight experienced a nearly threefold increase in vitamin D  (about 7.7 ng/mL) ,  independent of dietary intake of the nutrient ”

however  too much  vitamin d reduces life expectancy !


the VRP liquid 5000iu vitamin D  (4 fl oz bottle)  may be ok if kept in the fridge, the dropper kept clear of the teeth when used and the dose is adjusted down

i found .25ml too much and .1ml about right intially !

however i think it loses potency after several months because it doesn't contain any preservatives !

it's actually easier to meter this liquid vitamin D by the number of drops, say 8 ?

unfortunately i think the way it loses potency which is hard to pick may rule it out !

if you accidently touch the dropper with your teeth, wipe down the area touched with a piece of paper towel so no saliva  (and it's biofilm !)  is transferred into the vitamin D liquid !

maybe you could put a date on it and bin it after 6 weeks or two months, but i am going back to the blackmore's capsules as they have a tolerable preservative in  (for me anyway !)  and the vitamin D is slower to degrade !

what i mean is the blackmore's is slower to degrade because it has sodium sulfite as a preservative in !

in fact the blackmores (australian brand) is the most satisfactory vitamin D i have found to date ! : o)

the perishability of vitamin D is always a problem and for instance i found the  swisse brand  of vitamin D unsatisfactory because of the lack of a preservative and perhaps a basic quality issue with their source of the colecalciferol?


vitamin D is  fragile,  i do find the bottle needs to have a good seal and to be occasionally refreshed with a dry dessicant

capsules will stay very hard if they are dry and the blackmores 1000 iu i use has sodium sulfite as an antioxidant which i think is necessary for oil filled capsules

the oral d shouldn't be taken later than 3pm, i had a bad experience one night, taking 1000iu at 9.30pm and waking up with reflux at 5am from the immune suppression

i did a similar thing many years later and had a sore gut the next day!

so oral D wants taking at least 7-8 hours before bed and longer, you may as well get the "Knock Down" benefit nearer sleep time which it gives after an intial enervation

vitamin D is not stable at low pH in the stomach, under acidic conditions vitamin D is transformed to unwanted 5,6 trans vitamin D and isotachysterol.

the UVB lamp does increase the need for vitamin A as it destroys it in the skin

there's a fascinating  study  on other beneficial photoproducts apart from vit D from uvb which has been my experience with a uvb lamp, that it gives something that oral D3 doesn't :o)

oral and skin vitamin D are extremely depressing of the anti-viral immune system in the short term, there is a basic trade off between the growth factor promotion of vitamin D and immuno-suppression.

the amount of vitamin D needed will vary depending on your vitamin D binding protein phenotype  study,  so reference ranges for vitamin D tests will not be very helpful, much better to judge the effect yourself

vitamin D upregulates natural broad spectrum antibiotic's, cathelicidin and likely others

i really think vitamin D induces a different immune system mode, one that suits dry summer weather

it could be an issue taking fish oil and vitamin D on the same day as the double action can make viruses worse, especially in damp weather and in fact in autumn/winter/spring, the spacing may need to be thought about

vitamin D affects the repair and remodelling of lung tissue, significantly improving lung function

lung tumours have the ability to destroy vitamin D as high levels of vitamin D induct anti-tumour proteins  study

new research shows that all cells have vitamin D receptors and its role extends far beyond calcium homeostasis and bone building.

vitamin D receptors are widely distibuted in the brain

vitamin D affects proteins in the brain known to be directly involved in learning and memory, motor control, and possibly even maternal and social behavior

there are cognitive or behavioral consequences of vitamin D inadequacy, including schizophrenia and learning delays

large doses of oral vitamin D  (1000 iu or more?)  or skin D seem to considerably help with sleep

adequate skin and oral vitamin d  significantly  reduce the chances of diabetes

maternal vitamin D deficiency is associated with increased rates of schizophrenia and ms, vitamin D is essential for brain and other organ differentation in the developing fetus  study

vitamin D analogue pic of a vitamin D analogue bound to a receptor (green and the receptor is white and red), you can see what a convoluted and wavy molecule it is, with myriad different forms from subtle variations in shape

the actual exact  shape  of vit d the body prefers seems to not to be given by the usual supplement D's since i assume that in fact the manufacturing process is giving a subtly different shaped molecule which is some sort of analogue that doesn't suit the body 100% or perhaps it's in actual fact a spectrum of vitamin D isomers that is required and given by the sun on the skin !

my opinion is that the supplement or food fortified vitamin D molecule is not exactly the same as skin d and it's quite inferior

the vitamin D that comes naturally from the cow in cream is good if the sun altitude is high enough, the vitamin D is in the cream/fat and not the milk.

butter may suffer some losses of vitamin D and A compared to cream from oxidation, both from churning and salt

vitamin D may need a bit of cream or fat of some sort to go with it to aid absorbtion, especially with dry tablets or capsules.

the larger the iu the better for tablets or dry capsules as they can be divided down and reduce the filler intake

margarines use the vitamin D from lanolin derived cholesterol, which is then irridated with ultraviolet B rays to produce vitamin D3.

supplement vitamin D's are made from 7-dehydrocholesterol extracted from animal skins and then purifyed and then irridated with UVB (290-305nm) or from cholesterol from lanolin that is converted to 7-dehydrocholesterol and then irridated, also producing toxisterols as part of the process

there may be a problem with toxicity from toxisterols that are in vitamin D supplements

there should be toxisterol assays with any vit d supplement but i have yet to see any.

vitamin D is a flakey molecule having lots of unsatisfactory variants that are all called vitamin D, research has yet to catch up with this, but the upshot is that i have found only a few vitamin D supplements to be somewhat suitable

thinking in terms of a maxium safe dose for vit d is not the way to look at it, rather you are in an area of trade offs and that depends on how viral the child is (vit d supresses the anti-viral immune system), the level of toxisterols in the supplement, and also how toxic/sleep disrupting the preservatives are, and how much vit A you are using, (more vit a needs more vit d but keep them well spaced, days apart even)

excessively high active vitamin D blood levels are more an indication of low vitamin A and of the liver and kidneys not removing degraded hormones or converting 25D to 1-25D rather than any over-conversion by infected tissue within the body (the reasoning behind the marshall protocol?)

" Hypothyroidism is associated with decreased rates of metabolic clearance of steroids and increases in peripheral steroid aromatization in adult women " (vitamin D is a steriod - ed.)

above quote from " Role of Thyroid Hormones in Human and Laboratory Animal Reproductive Health "

the intial immunosuppressive effect of skin vitamin D may be due to 25D acting as follows :

“  According to recent molecular models, the steroid25-D binds the Vitamin D Receptor and affects the activity of the immune system as well, but in a manner opposite to 1,25-D.  When the steroid 25-D binds the Vitamin D Receptor, it decreases the activity of the receptor, causing the innate immune system to slow down and shut off.  This effect begins around 20 ng/ml and gradually increases with higher levels of 25-D, until the vitamin D receptor becomes completely blocked ”

in my view, people who claim to benefit from the  marshall  protocol in fact have huge latencies and deprecated conversion of the circulating and immunosuppressive form of vitamin D (25D) to the active, immune system upregulating form (1-25D)

most likely they are groaning under the weight of biofilm toxins with heavy metal impaired kidney function as well

interestingly uvb on the skin can convert 7-dehydrocholesterol (7-DHC)  directly  to the active 1-25D (calcitrol) without going through the liver or kidneys !


for every increase of 1 ng/ml of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol [25(OH)D3] in the blood, subjects in a calorie restricted diet study  lost  an extra .2kg

in other words obesity is a symptom of vitamin d deficiency


blackmores sell a 1000 iu lanolin derived vitamin D3 (capsule) in australia and new zealand which is ok, but i think these supplement vitamin D molecules differ in some way from what is made naturally in the skin by sun and the effect seems to be lacking, or maybe there's a spectrum of useful vitamin D isonomers that UVB lamps or the sun make ?

particularly i noticed my tendons getting tighter when i stopped using my vitamin D lamp and just taking the blackmore's, but when i started using the lamp again the tendons loosened up (became less inflamed?) again

interestingly i am finding that the 1000 iu blackmores is almost too much vitamin D, causing severe immune supression ?

It may be best given as say a drop or two daily in the same way as vit E to give say 300 iu or so for an adult a day.

i do not take vitamin D if i am very viral or have had recent viral exposure, or expect exposure

same holds for fish oil

the large amount of vit d in the one blackmores capsule is really a strong bonus as it enables you take the amount of vit d you require with less of the hydrogenated oils and anitoxidants that the vit d is suspended in.

i have read that oral vitamin D is not very well absorbed, losing about 50% but i feel the oil blackmores capsule may be absorbing a lot better compared to dry d's, 90% being absorbed (perhaps).


D3 flows through to higher  (87%)  blood levels of the active forms in a way that D2 doesn't, however a small amount of D2 may be  essential  !

the 25(OH)D storage form as well as the 1,25 (OH)2 D active form is active, new research shows

only D3 in daily doses of 400 iu and above reduces the risk of non vertebrate fractures in the elderly  meta analysis

"The two calciferols produced similar rises in serum concentration of the administered vitamin, indicating equivalent absorption. Both produced similar initial rises in serum 25(OH)D over the first 3 d, but 25(OH)D continued to rise in the D3-treated subjects, peaking at 14 d, whereas serum 25(OH)D fell rapidly in the D2-treated subjects and was not different from baseline at 14 d."      study

according to this   study  high levels of D2 are problematic, but in terms of that study, since the higher D2 levels were associated with children from lower socio-economic backgrounds, factors like diet and inept supplementation may be coming into play !

“ higher levels of vitamin D2 were linked to poorer performance in English in 13 to 14 year olds and fewer A* to C GCSE grades obtained at the ages of 15 and 16 ”

i have used my handheld uvb  lamp  on mushrooms to make D2 in them

the standard 290 - 315nm broadband uvb spectrum works well on the ergosterol !

( disclaimer:  i am not recommending that this lamp be built or used, it is purely a description of what i am doing ! imo it's not necessary to shield my hands for this sort of limited exposure unless one has an immune function deficiency, but goggles to protect the eyes from cornea burns are important ! )

  shiitake  seems to be good, but any type of mushroom should do, the gills of the shitake irridate well being sorta transparent white when fresh, tho they go brown as they lose their freshness !

uvb absorption by water on the gills from washing is not significant in terms of spectra absorption and the mm of water over the gills at the most, but i am still cautious about leaving the gills wet when uvb-ing and try to leave them dry !

while all mushrooms have ergosterol in and the potential to produce vitamin D2 in such a manner, the transparent white of the shiitake gills permits greater contact of the UVB with ergosterol and very high D2 values can be achieved with exposure to broadband UVB fluorescent tubes !

sunlight also  works , tho i think you need a solarmeter  6.4  to see how much   UVB   there is in the sunlight !

46,000 iu is not to be sniffed at !

with my uvb lamp I think a couple of seconds gets me about 2 or 3000 iu and maybe about 12 seconds gets me up to 180,000? iu

why i do this is i think i have a tendency to high homocysteine and vitamin D promotes an  enzyme  that converts homocysteine to cysteine

it may be that uv'ed mushroom D2 works better in these high doses than D3  supplementation  !

in terms of that article, i don't take much vitamin D3 and sun/skin vitamin d also comes with anti inflammatory compounds

the large doses for me have come from uv'ed mushroom D2 which may work abit different from D3 and also likely has anti inflammatory compounds

there's a very famous  recollection  by eihei dogen of a temple cook drying mushrooms in intense midday sun

steve  asks

If I grill them on the barbie with some filet mignon... will I destroy the D2?

my  reply

i pressure cook them at 8 psi/111C/233F and that seems to work well, when you have large amounts of vitamin D like that you can definitely tell the effect the next day, which can actually be quite depressive ! :o)

it's the long term health benefits we are after : o)

once you get a feel for what the effects of such high doses are, you can experiment with cooking methods and tell what works :o)

i don't think D2 is a replacement for D3, it just has therapeutic value used in combination with skin or oral D3 or as the occasional very high D2 dose :o)

the D2 is all in the surfaces so I think you would want to avoid high temperatures or charring of the surfaces, especially the gills !

brown shiitake gills are not ok to lamp in my experience, but are ok to eat unirridated !

btw the shiitake mushrooms can make the skin a bit itchy and thicken it if you eat a lot consistently

it does have a toxin in which may also be part of the immune stimulatory effect

bit like porasis i thought

if you stop eating them, then it goes away in a day or so

i think with the fresher ones it's not so bad

eileen comments :

“ ah ok interesting u say that i've been eating a lot lately and have been experiencing an unexplained slight movable itching in the skin

i meant just a general itchyness all over that is unexplained and not showing a rash

it's not chronic just occassional but it's a new thing and i was wondering wot it was ”

s u r  p  r i s e !

i think that the fresher the mushrooms, the more D2 is made !

timing needs to be exact, 2 to 6 seconds  (larger to smaller amounts )  moving the lamp almost as close as possible to them is enough with shiitake gills for my requirements..................

also you can slice or break up the mushrooms to expose the ergosterol in the sides!

the point is it is very easy to create large amounts of D2 this way and my concern is not to overdo it because with too high a dose on shiitake gills you can really get knocked out the next day : o)

button mushrooms don't seem to be able to have D2 created anything like as easily as shiitake !

you can however use higher irridated doses of D2 to help with sleep because the soporific effect is so strong !

remove the stems before starting the irridation.

i may wash the tops but keep the water out of the gills as they waterlog and that reduces the efficiency of the irridation!

the uvb only penetrates the tiniest  distance  into the mushroom surface depending on pigment and transparency,  40?  microns  at the most !

if you are irridating onto a plastic breadboard, make sure you put a paper towel between the mushrooms and the breadboard so that the breadboard doesn't get damaged by the uvb !

the effect is different from D3, i think D2 and D3 have different benefit profiles

easy to do and well worth an experiment, you will feel quite tired the next day or about from 12 hours later after eating which is a sign of a significant vitamin D dose !

The irridated D2 seems reasonably well preserved after cooking and starts to have an effect mainly after about 12 hours from eating i find !

i am sure that the slower release from digestion is beneficial !


the blackmores 1000 iu vit d does have sodium sulphite in

wether the amount is significant i don't know and with an oil suspended vitamin D like in capsules, you are always going to need a preservative of some sort

i don't think i had an issue with sodium sulphite, but taking molybdenum would help convert the sulphite to sulphate

stomach irritation is listed as an effect of sodium sulphite, also asthma attacks

from a report by janet who ran into these effects with herself and her children, the sodium sulphite could be a significant issue with the blackmores, however her and her children's reactions could have been a combination of viruses getting away with the vitamin D, and the viruses messing the liver also making for a more severe reaction to the sodium sulphite

“ I felt sickish and very fatigued and got a stomach ache that lasted 1/2 the day.

(stomach aches are very rare for me these days  —  were a huge prob before enzymes & GF)

My daughter got a very bad stomach ache around lunch and very fatigued.  By then, I figured maybe we were stirring a latent virus or getting a current one and gave her a good dose of retinyl acetate.  She felt better w/in 4 hrs.

Christopher had no adverse reaction all day. At bedtime, out of the blue, he began wheezing for no apparent cause. It progressed to needing his inhaler but since then he's been fine ”

janet writes again on february the 11th 2007:

“ The blackmore's D has sulfites in it which seemed to trigger an asthma attack in Cody, so we tried out  ‘daily manufacturingʼs’  1000iu vitamin D which I found at my local health food store.

An email to the company confirmed it was lanolin derived and suitable for Cody  (I listed his allergies and gluten intolerance and sulfite sensitivity)  and we all three seem to do very well on it so far  (in small doses, but working up).  It was really inexpensive too - less than $5 I think ”


eileen writes:

I'm not disagreeing with Andrew about his uv-b lamp being superior to oral supplemented vit D but I would like to say the Blackmore's vit D is really good,

I've tried a few different forms of vit D and this is by far the best and gives the closest to lamp effect I've ever experienced, better mood and ramping of libido, if you cannot access the right sort of lamp at the moment it's worth getting till you can.


the douglas labs 1000 iu vitamin D tablet seems to be ok but really needs to be in a tablet of about 6000iu cut down to reduce the amount of filler

it may be that it being in an oil filled capsule is a better way to take vitamin D as being suspended in oil may mean that the vitamin molecule shape is not distorted by being compressed in a tablet

the twinlabs vitamin D may be ok except for the potato starch filler which adversely affects the digestion. (bcd/scd illegal)

the vrp vit d is no good and i'm not happy with the source naturals vit d either, too stimulating for some reason. the source naturals vit d seems to give to an unwanted hard edge to the personality.

presumably fish liver oil would have the right shape but i worry about organic and heavy metal toxics

skin d would also be the right shape but appears to be different from the oral lanolin derived d.

the vit d formed from the use of my uvb lamp appears to up-muscle the heart and growth factors but the blackmores may help more with mood.

interestingly vitamin D greatly reduces autoimmune action against the pancreas   study

so you can see pregnant mums and kids getting no skin d and bad vaccines like the hep b with viral protiens matching protein sequences on the insulin producing pancreas islets, that the immune system destroys these islets = blood sugar and brain blood sugar issues leading to adhd and its through all the kids today

vitamin D is such good autoimmune reducer than it can be used to help tolerate tissue transplants or metal implants

the downside is it reduces T cell action so you have to be careful in relation to viruses

it also pumps up heart muscle and helps make the valve flaps optimally flexible


“ Using newly available data on worldwide cancer incidence, researchers at the Moores Cancer Center at University of California, San Diego have shown a clear association between deficiency in exposure to sunlight, specifically ultraviolet B  (UVB),  and endometrial  (uterine)  cancer.  (november 2007)

The researchers created a graph with a vertical axis for endometrial cancer incidence rates, and a horizontal axis for latitude.  The latitudes range from -50 for the southern hemisphere, to zero for the equator, to +70 for the northern hemisphere.  They then plotted incidence rates for 175 countries according to latitude.  The resulting chart was a parabolic curve that looks like a smile ”


“ The first event in cancer is loss of communication among cells due to, among other things, low vitamin D and calcium levels.  This loss may play a key role in cancer by disrupting the   communication  between cells that is essential to healthy cell turnover, allowing more aggressive cancer cells to take over ”


i don't like vitamin D from fish liver oil as there may be difficulty with the molecular refining process to remove heavy metals and inorganic toxins and retain the vitamin A and d.

if you are getting good amounts of the 'right sun' then that will be providing very large amounts of vitamin D and the oral d may need scaling back.

as you get older the skin has less cholesterol in it and the sun vitamin D conversion gets less efficent i think.

also the conversion of cholesterol to 7-dehydrocholesterol in the skin is enzyme dependant and this is likely to decline with age and 7-dehydrocholesterol is the form the ultraviolet b rays need to stike to convert it to pre-vitamin D

vitamin D, wether oral or sun or a uvb lamp on the skin is tricky because of its short term immune suppression effect, but very benefical long term changes in gene expression

oily oral d may suppress the anti-viral immune system from say half an hour after taking and peaking at 2 hours going through to 12 hours?

the lamp (my uvb lamp) is immune supressing say starting an hour after use, starting to be very noticable by four hours, maybe peaking at 12 hours and over by 20 hours?

but feeling a lot more alive going back to using the lamp, the lamp and sunbathing do NOT mix

if you have low thyroid and are not doing the dual seleniums then you need to be very cautious about any sun exposure from the point of view of melanoma. thyroid function is essential for immune system operation and its abliity to seek out and destroy cancerous cells.

vit d and uvb/sun lamps are very immunosupressive short term which makes the use of both over winter a question of when they can be fitted in since viral exposure is so constant

“ men were  immunosuppressed  by solar simulated UV doses three times lower than those required to immunosuppress women. ”

even oral vitamin D may be more immuno-suppressive for males than females

its very important to understand vitamin D as being a pole with immune supression and high growth factors at the high dose/level end and immuno-reactivity and low growth factors or even negative growth factors at the low dose/level end

the immune supression thing is mainly viral, high vit d doses seem to

be very anti bacterial and possibly anti fungal as well

vitamin D turns on pathways that make some anti-bacterial peptides including peptides against tuberculosis which explains tuberculosis sanatoriums being sited in sunny spots

“ laboratory-grown gingival cells  treated with vitamin D boosted their production of an endogenous antibiotic, and killed more bacteria than untreated cells, which suggests that vitamin D can help protect the gums from bacterial infections that lead to gingivitis and periodontitis. ”

vitamin D may possibly suppress or redirect resources away from the bodies anti-viral immune system in the short term

skin vitamin D really helps women with hormones

excess 1,25dihydroxyvitamin D levels are a consequence of the failure of the hydroxylase enzyme to destroy 1,25D and force turnover

the marshall protocol which attempts to severely limit vitamin D from the diet and sun exposure misunderstands the causes of excess vitamin D and is misguided

people who benefit form the marshall protocol in fact have a very poor turnover of vitamin D and accumulate high levels leading to supression of the anti-viral immune system

they may be hypothyroid and low iodine, in short the usual viral nutters going for the wrong solution


if you look at the science at the crystal level the synthetic vitamin D molecules are different and also have high toxisterol levels which is why oral vitamin D supplementation doesn't work properly

having used my home built uvb vitamin D lamp for years and having outstanding health and musculature from the vitamin D steriod effect i know the difference

however i do vigilently watch for moles and remove them with iodine and/or freezing aka the moles page if i have any doubts about them

the public health advice about getting sun exposure away from solar noon is quite wrong and a big factor behind the rising melanoma rates because new research is showing that uva is more signficant for melanoma than uvb and guess what? the FDA/public health advice maximises uva at the expense of uvb

they also made tanning booth lamps have high uva at the expense of uvb which was a major factor in sun booth tanning causing melanoma, you don't hear this in the stupid media

skin has 99% absorbtion of uvb and 95% absorbtion of uva within 300 microns so you can see that deeper more dangerous skin cancers need uva to get the mutations at depth as well as the fundamentally different mode of uva mutation by oxidative stress that causes melanoma

the fda saw its mistake with the tanning booth regulations and very quietly in 2004 let the uvb percentage go up

ergoline makes more vitamin D oriented tanning booths


“ vitamin D not only can be used as a therapy for prostate cancer, it can  prevent  prostate cancer from happening ”



d alpha tocopherol (a form of vitamin E ): 1.49 iu = 1 milligram

vitamin D: 40 iu = 1 microgram

vitamin A: retinol units 3.33 iu = 1 microgram

one dessertspoonfull of sunflower oil is 3.8 grams and that contains 2.33 - 3.1 iu  (41 - 55 mg vitamin E/100g oil)



it just amazes me the way enzymes are ignored by most parents of children with developmental issues, the aged and people with digestive problems

that is, those most in need of them and would best gain benefit

enzymes are the cornerstone that shortcircuits a lot of bad positive feedback loops with digestive health problems giving a quantum potential for improvement

starting enzymes     ( in the biofilm carbohydrate diet, cooking and food  index )

my enzymes and norovirus  write-up  !

my email and devin's  reply  on septic shock from pancreatic enzymes !

the amylase in zyme prime may help  remedy  obesity,  metabolic  syndrome  and  insulin resistance

i have noticed this from experience, but  here  is the research that gives the reason for enzymes bringing about big improvements in the gut microbiome within half an hour to several hours!


just as important as the digestive function of enzymes is their ability to retard biofilm growth by stressing and attacking the biofilm and reducing its food sources by breaking down food so it doesn't hang about in the gut so long

the names of enzymes have the ending of      - ase

proteases and lipases are  anti-bacterial,  cellulase and amylase are not, but cellulase seems likely to help digest amoeba

my primary enzyme recommendations are the  houston nutraceuticals   afp-pep  with rice bran, scd  zyme-prime  and scd  no fenol  and the pure essence  candex

because the dpp-iv in afp-pep inhibits GLP-1, the use of this enzyme is more complex than i had intially thought, so my advice on this is  here

i think the houston  bromelain  is useful and has an anti viral action, and seems to reduce the usual colds and flu's !

it is also needed now that devin can't get the sulfite free papain that was used in peptizyde and hn-zyme prime

i do think that sulphite is ok with most people and that a sulphite papain might be ok in his formulations, however i am not aware of any plans by houston to do this unfortunately !

if anyone is able to consider funding further product development by devin, it would be useful................

there's more than profit involved in this and he should be getting government funding.............

being sensible is not how government works is it?

might look and see if i can find some straight papain to compare to the bromelain

the bromelain is best mixed with say 12 ml of water and then swallowed, tho it can be tipped out of the capsule to the back of the throat

   no fenol   was developed by devin houston on a suggestion by  dana  to help reduce phenol induced issues in autistic children and may also be of  assistance  with downs syndrome promoting the adrenalin pathways as it does

it's a totally unique enzyme formulation and there's no other like it, kirkmans tried to copy it, but they ended up with something more like candex

i take about two to four a day, after fruit or a meal, maybe for five years or more now

no fenol  frees compounds out of pasturized blueberries that act as potent anti-biofilmics

each enzyme formulation is unique

and not very swappable

they are actually blends









the best way to take the cellulose/mct filler  'no fenol'

is to tip the capsule contents into a glass of about 15ml of non-town supply water (no oxidising fluoride or chlorine ! )

swirl it around to mix it up

then swallow it and rinse the glass with another 10 - 15ml of water and swallow that too

also just opening the capsule and tipping the contents down the back of the throat works almost as well as adding it to water

i usually add a  zyme-prime  to the  no fenol  in the glass and mix both together

you can double up enzymes to great effect, like say two no fenol and two zyme prime making for a total of four mixed together as above !

packs a solid digestive and anti-biofilmic punch !


peptizyde in milk makes peptides promoting insulin response and lowering blood pressure ?

  insuvida  (a dsm product)  has the potential to transform the lives of pre-diabetics.

“the astonishing thing is that it's possible to induce insulin production to levels that are normal for healthy people, even in subjects in the late stages of type 2 diabetes. it partially restores impaired insulin function.

when we elucidated the dna sequence of aspergillus niger we obtained a lot of information about the different proteases in it  (enzymes that break up proteins).

they all hydrolyse protein at different locations and we can make very specific protein hydrolysates and all kinds of peptides, which depending on their structure, have different functionalities. one of them turned out to have a significant impact on insulin response.”

increased insulin response stimulates the disposal of glucose in the blood and lowers glucose peaks after food.

insuvida works, that's not at issue. But it wasn't commercially viable.The amount you'd need to consume to make it efficacious was just too high, and after we evaluated it, we could see that it wasn't going to be a commercially viable product.

dsm has another peptide, a tripeptide they call  tensvida  which lowers blood pressure

i feel my system of heating milk to 82C then letting it cool to about 63-65C and mixing in peptizyde, then drinking the result, creates some of these useful peptides in a possibly signifcant way

so, i am mixing an afp pep with goats milk that has been heated to 82C then let cool to about 65C

then letting the curd/whey mixture stand so that i can drink off the whey from the top through a straw!

the curd settles to the bottom, a tall glass might be needed for the last bit !

not elegant, but the best i can figure at the moment !

the curd is discarded/fed to the feral cats !


a new  study  shows that rice bran has high levels of arsenic, but the amount of rice bran in the houston enzymes is so tiny there would not be a significant amount, but with some of these rice bran high fiber products and breakfast cereals you would expect a problem

i am not presently recommending zycarb and trienza or the chewable or bulk powder versions of any of the enzymes

imo the replacement of the rice bran filler for most of the houston enzyme product range with a cellulose and MCT  (medium chain triglyceride)  filler may be a retrograde step tho i am keeping an open mind on this !

the cellulose and MCT filler may be less digestible than the rice bran

i think what tri-enza does is try to be a complete stand-alone enzyme product and this is is not possible

jenn writes: “The yeast did creep back up again using the new ZyCarb enzyme from HNI. Same thing happened when she tried the AFP-Pep & reg. Zyme-Prime, so I know she needs the fruit based enzymes in the blend to keep the yeast at bay. She got a stomach the other day too. She's been healthy using the Pep & HN-Zymeprime so I am going to be using those from now on. Biofilm strikes again! We'll do some anti-virals etc. & extra No-Fenol too for a couple of days & see how it goes.”

the enzymedica 'lacto' is probably ok, the 'digest gold' is a high lipase formulation which will cause problems since nerves are basically fats

a google search term on this page "digest+gold+helps+aches+and+stiffness"

if you are starting enzymes, you will need to stage the introduction, maybe starting with the hn-zyme, read more in this section and the  starting enzymes  page


each capsule of no fenol weights 411mg including the weight of the little capsule shells,

with 32mg of filler in each, thats a ratio of 12.8 times the total enzyme capsule weight to filler

maybe about 12 times excluding the capsule shells

so it's a significant amount


oral enteric coated pancreatic enzymes from pigs may be ok, however enteric coatings seem to have phtalates in and i worry a bit about possibilites of diease transmission since there are upper limits to the temperatures pancreatic enzymes can be subjected to before they are degraded

this may be a real issue as (april 2010) the fda has withdrawn the rotovirus vaccine  "rotarix"  because of contamination with viral DNA from pig trypsin

makes me wonder about the safety of "armour" (dessicated porcine thyroid) as well

“...enteric coatings that allow the release of the active ingredients into the small intestine or in the colon. The enteric coatings generally consist of various polymers that contain plasticizers, including triethyl citrate, dibutyl sebacate, and phthalates such as diethyl phthalate (DEP) and dibutyl phthalate (DBP).”

“Some phthalates readily cross the placenta and are developmental and reproductive toxicants in laboratory animals (Saillenfait et al. 1998). For instance, prenatal exposure of rats to dibutyl phthalate (DBP) and di(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate (DEHP) decreased fetal testis testosterone and insulin-like factor 3 biosynthesis by Leydig cells, and increased the incidence of cryptorchidism and hypospadias among male offspring (Borch et al. 2006; Gray et al. 2000; Parks et al. 2000).”

i have seen reports of rapid weight gain and a reduction in diarreha with creon 5 which are pancreatic enzymes from pigs encapuslated so they go intact through the stomach to the small intestine.

the encapsulation is dibutyl phthalate which raises toxicity issues with long term ingestion  study

“The estimated concentrations of free MEP were 2�3 orders of magnitude higher than reported from environmental phthalate exposure”  which is quite a bit

they are used for csytic fibrosis and available only by prescription and are quite expensive

the parents who have found creon 5 necessary also are doing the most wrong minded dietary interventions and supplementation and this may be why they find the creon necessary, but interestingly, it seems to bring their chidlren to a certain point and they go no further which one would expect from the sheer breathtaking stupidity of the supplement and dietary interventions promoting biofilm or nutrient starvation


if using enzymes for the first time you will need to 'break-in' the gut and gut biofilm by a staged introduction of the enzymes.

i first started with hn-zyme, then after a while (weeks?) introduced pep, then no-fenol in the rice bran oil filler capsule versions.

i do prefer the rice bran excipient versions, however houston have switched some formulations to micro crystalline cellulose filler only, what i have found is that for best effect, these need mixed with water first

some parents seem to prefer the afp pep which has no fruit enzymes - hence less exciting of allergies, but in my experience it lacks 'ommph' compared to pep

no fenol by promoting tyrosine and dopamine is somewhat anti-viral and promoting of neurogenesis

however tyrosine binds with iodine so using no fenol requires iodine supplementation aka the iodine page

the reason the rice bran filler is so much better for enzymes is that the anti-oxidants gamma-oryzanol and tocotrienols in the rice bran filler act as a health giving preservative

the amount of gamma-oryzanol in rice bran oil is surprisingly high, 1 to 1.5%

it inhibits the absorbtion of cholesterol to give a more favourable hdl/ldl ratio but my experience is that in cooking oil quantities this has issues

the enzymes are more fragile and susceptible to degregation than is made out and interestingly they don't just snip, but enfold what they are going to digest to position the target molecule for the snips

most of the effect of enzymes is as much knocking back biofilm as actual digestion imo

unfortunately houston enzymes have no rice bran version of zyme (unlike hn-zyme which has a rice bran filler version)

the chewable versions contain scd illegals

tipping pep from the capsule into the back of the throat is a bit hard on the  lingual tonsils

i had been getting the occasional feeling of food stuck in the back of the throat from this

mixing pep with a small quantity of water and drinking that instead of tipping direct into the back of the throat seems to work, as does sprinkling pep on food

no fenol can be left in the capsule, but pep and hn-zyme are hopeless if swallowed in the capsule

you don't want the enzymes to wash through the stomach too quick, i may drink a bit of water somewhat later as i start to feel thirsty from the enzymes needing more fluid to hydrolyze the protiens or sugars they are cleaving when i take enzymes after a meal

peptizyde/proteases are quite hard on bacteria, hn-zyme to a lesser extent and i keep these enzymes away from yogurt

also see enzyme use for the  getting to first base test


 candex  can be swallowed whole in the capsule, but is best tipped into 17ml of water, and is great for deconstructing biofilm and seems to work best on a very empty stomach first thing in the morning and kept that way for a while, or sometimes a bit after a meal of fruit. two (smaller adult) or three capsules (larger adult) seem effective.

one may feel sorta hard and hyper about four or five hours after taking candex, especially with oreganol, some sort of herxeimers?

a caution on candex however; it cleaves phenols in a way that is not helpful to the immune system, presumably reducing tyrosine stocks for the dopamine and adrenaline pathways, the effect is to reduce immune system action

no fenol cleaves phenols the right way and is an immune system promoter, but can interfere with sleep if taken to excess

poorer sleep (early waking ?) can be a side effect of more activity from norepinephrine, epinephrine and noradrenaline promotion by no-fenol (offset somewhat by the compendium iodine dosing which soaks up the extra tyrosine made by no-fenol)

noradrenaline gives  resistance  to depression so that would make no fenol  an anti-depressant  !

i find that lithium and strontium as per the compendium greatly help to restore good sleep, with no fenol and these you get the best of all worlds !

"noradrenaline plays an important role as an immunosuppressant in the brain, preventing inflammation and stress to neurons. noradrenaline is also known to help to preserve the integrity of the blood-brain barrier."

parkinsons , alzheimers and MS have noradrenaline shortfalls in the brain because of damage to the locus coeruleus area of the brain, no fenol may help with these conditions since it promotes noradrenaline  study

ultimately, the need to take candex for biofilm from fruit sugars (pasturized or unpasturized) and spores (unpasturized fruit, though peeling cherries, plums and gooseberries does help reduce phenols and biofilms a lot) limits how much fruit can be eaten since candex depresses the immune system

they are quite different size capsules if you look at the difference you will get an idea of what the story is, you need that enzyme bulk that the large candex capsules have

i will occasionally take a no fenol tipped in a bit of water followed 10 minutes later or at the same time as two candex capsules also tipped into 17ml of water first thing in the morning followed half to an hour later by a few oreganol drops

a no fenol followed half an hour later by two candex before bed may also be a good combination, maybe the best combination for biofilm

a no-fenol and a candex together is another good biofilm combination, can even induce a touch of toxic shock from the herxheimer reaction

a small amount of vit C can help with toxic shock

toxic shock (die off ?) is a bit of an eye opener and at an extreme can be life threatening so wants thinking about, possibly charcol is another assist (for stomach die off ?) though i don't have any personal experience of using this

candex shouldn't be given regularly every day

its not like no fenol which provides what the body wants, candex is there to help with yeast/biofilm and thats about it, you can tell there's something not quite right with it as it is a bit depressing

it digests the wrong way in terms of what the body needs, probably denying it certain phenolic precursors

its basically a biofilm deconstructor and used as needed


Eileen writes:

“Just had food poisoning from a piece of chicken I consumed for breakfast, as soon as the slight dizzyness & stomach griping started I took an extra No fenol and 1 candex

About 15 minutes later I felt much better, it had passed so I think that combo knocked the toxins on the head.”

my comment:

yeah candex and no fenol have some synergy

maybe the toxins have some sugars on that the enzymes can denature?

“escherichia coli, the bacteria responsible for food poisoning, bloody diarrhoea and haemolytic uraemic syndrome, targets a specific sugar that humans make from food.

the toxin targets cells with a specific sugar, Neu5Gc, on their surface.

these cells line the human gut and the blood vessels of the kidneys.”


i am working on wether adding nattokinase with candex and no-fenol is useful as an anti-biofilmic, but nattokinase may have issues like favouring bad over good biofilm and causing migraine and white tongue as well as clotting rebound issues in those susceptible

the now brand nattokinase has BCD/scd illegals in, seems to have bad clotting rebound and is not ok

source naturals has a BCD legal "NSK-SD�" 100mg nattokinase, i have tried one capsule a bit of a while after taking candex and no fenol (the nattokinase in this formulation is in a gelatine capsule and dissolves quickly), it may have done something, i am not sure.

i think it did something positive, tho rougher on friendly biofilm than just no fenol and candex


hn-zyme and no-fenol together can be quite powerful in terms of digestion, the use of no fenol has a number of angles and stand alone use of part of a capsule after phenolic snacks is also of use

no fenol and hn-zyme may be useful in solving the fodmap fruit problem, that is, you get too much fructose compared to glucose, no fenol, hn-zyme and possibly candex may promote the glucose side of things, maybe hn-zyme is better at this than no fenol

the fodmap problem with fruit is that you need glucose for fructose to be quickly absorbed, and fruit is short of glucose compared to fructose, like mangos have a bad low glucose to fructose ratio while watermelon has a higher, better ratio

ideally fructose and glucose should be about 50:50, glucose facilitates a rapid absorbtion mechanism for fructose, thought there is an independent but slow and much weaker fructose only absorption mechanism

the enzymedica 'lacto' enzyme blend may useful for those with severe gut biofilm and having difficulty tolerating the houstonni enzymes.

in that case start off with very small doses of the 'lacto' (1/8th or less of a capsule), and work slowly up over weeks with the 'lacto'

'glutenease' sent laura into a flare, 'virastop' made her sick and when i took virastop i thought there was something unbalanced about it, biofilm promoting, maybe killing the wrong gut bacteria

laura didn't like 'lypo' (which is a high lipase formulation) and it gave janets son a wheezing/asthama attack, however janet feels it really helps her with digestion in eating cheese and egss but has had several bad headaches lasting several days that may be due to the lypo

basically the nerves are fat and so is some of the gut wall so the lipases might be attacking them, especially if the gut is leaky

thats why devin houston has been sparing with lipase in his formulations i think

whats in the emzymedica lypo formulation:

Lactase: 600 ALU

Lipase Thera-blend: 4,000 FCCFIP

Amylase Thera-blend: 11,000 DU

Protease Thera-blend: 40,000 HUT


proteases have a complex viral responses depending on the virus and protease, and can in fact promote or hinder depending, some viruses use some proteases like dpp-iv to replicate, wether this is significant in practice is hard to say

the enzymedica 'virastop' enzyme in fact seems to be ambiguous or not really effective against viruses or may even promote them (virastart lol). it does have a temporary blood thinning effect if taken on an empty stomach about two hours later which would give some utility for migraines but since it also seem to impact gut flora the wrong way the balance equation comes up "not worth it"

" In addition, reactive oxygen species produced in the lung may inactivate protease inhibitors, resulting in increased protease activity. Using an in vitro system consisting of alpha 1-antiprotease, trypsin and HOCl as the oxidant, we have shown that the infectivity of influenza viruses can be increased up to 10,000-fold by proteolytic cleavage of haemagglutinin, leading to activation of the fusogenic properties of this protein."

the above quote from "Alterations in antioxidant defences in lung and liver of mice infected with influenza A virus"  pubmed

i have always been a bit suspicous that protein cleaving enzymes like virastop and pep etc. mildly promote respiratory virus's and cleaving haemagglutinin might be a possiblity, though this is speculative

this effect would be worse the more likely the proteases were to end up in the lymph nodes, like proteases taken on an empty stomach

since haemagglutinin causes red blood cells to clump together, it could be a reason why i get migrainey with respiratory viruses, along with the virus impairing liver function

haemagglutinin is an antigenic glycoprotein on the surface of the influenza virus

anyway the vrp k2 seems to have got me over that hump and i sure need pep from a digestive viewpoint


devin  houstons  comment on enzymes and viral infections :

Any enzyme may be absorbed into the systemic circulation through a process called macrocytosis. However, enzymes absorbed this way have a very short life-span in the bloodstream as there are inhibitors present that bind to the enzymes and take them out of circulation.

I know there are some companies vigorously stating that enzyme supplements can that enzyme supplements can help with viral infections. There is very little GOOD evidence (emphasis on GOOD) that enzymes have an anti-viral effect.

I'm sure if you put a virus and protease in a test tube you would see some effect on the virus. But that is far from a real-life scenario. Viral infections are complex. By the time you've realized you have a virus, the virus itself is on it's way out, and what you are experiencing are the aftershocks of your immune system fighting off the virus.

A viral particle spends 90% of it's time inside a cell, where an oral enzyme cannot get to it. Also, the enzyme must make physical contact with the virus to degrade it. The chances for such an occurrence are minimal.

I feel a much better alternative to fending off viruses is the use of elderberry extracts. Go to  pubmed  and put the keywords "elderberry" and "virus" and see the literature. Or go to  sambucol  and read the info there.


new research is showing that the aspergillus enzymes denature gluten

so probably the houstonni afp pep would be very good against gluten

maybe pep as well


M. writes (february 07):

I first tried Peptizyde by Houston's because at the time, this was the only one marketed to be strong enough to leave the diet (I had no intention of leaving the diet at that time but felt since one could, it indicated it was stronger). My son's stools went from chocolate milk to more like pudding (sorry to be gross). I kept him on them(in addition to diet) because I saw such an improvement in his behaviours and development. When I ran out, my son regressed. I had a sample bottle of Kirkman's and it did nothing for him. When I got Peptizyde again, he got back on track. Years later, I discovered my son is intolerant to pineapple. I switched from Peptizyde (which has bromelain derived from pineapple) to AFP Peptizyde and his stools were finally firm. The enzymes helped him but the bromelain was still hindering his stools. I have kept him on AFP Peptizyde since.

my comment: pep seems to be more powerful compared to afp pep


L. who has crohn's or similar writes:

"I have found the lacto to be very good, I can still tell that it gets me if I take too much, but I don't have the EXTREME pain of pep. I also think that it probably wears off quicker than houstonni, Houstonni's effect would last me for many hours, I honestly felt I could take a bit in the morning and have it last until dinner, but lacto I definitely have to take with every meal and snack"

my reply : i like pep because its the most effective and intense of the protease enzyme formulations, but can see that with crohn's it would cut too much into the inflamed tissue

L. has made a later (october 2006) comment about the enzymedica range of enzymes

"I tried v-gest, didn't like it, as far as enzymedica enzymes go I think only lacto and digest work, not digest gold, only digest"

my comment:

a clear flavourless gelatine and b vits (especially b6?) will help with gut wall tissue reconstruction with the use of a mild protease like lacto, or more especially with a more cutting protease like pep

you will never be well until you can tolerate a protease because the inability to tolerate a protease certainly means that there is very invasive biofilm in the gut

you also need the biofilm substantially gone, to tolerate and make use of supplements , and not having the supplements go to feeding the biofilm


crohn's is very similar to johnes disease in cattle which is caused by Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis (MAP) and associated polysaccharide biofilm

the various enzyme formualtions are a combination of fungal derived and fruit derived enzymes and work in the stomach rather than the intestine like pancreatic enzymes.

some formulations are fungal derived only cause of the increased allergenic potential of fruit derived enzymes, but they don't work as well.

i am very wary of disease issues with pancreatic enzymes because they come from pigs and the amount of heat treatment is limited since you risk deactivating the enzymes. pigs have a variety of diseases including a 'pigs aids', what the reality of cross infection is, i don't know

enzymes will work over a broad ph range but are optimal is a lower acidity so low stomach acid is not an issue with them.

saw an e&a post where a woman startred first with pep with good results but she was doing B-12 injections as well, to much B-12 though, the child hit her. when i started enzymes i did zyme or pep first then later no fenol.

since some kids seem to have allergy issues with fruit enzymes houstonni makes a fungal only version of pep called afp pep which is better tolerated, but less potent.


a who knows post titled 'enzymes near the end of the bottle losing potency'

its happened with pep and now with zyme as i got near the end of the bottle

basically i think the enzymes need to be put in a bottle with a decent lid seal and renewed dry dessicant needs to be put in half way through use if the climate is damp (thats me using about two zyme a day)

i have had some correspondence with devin houston on this and he says that his tests have shown the enzyme activity is still ok, or only minimally down in such circmstances, but my feeling is that there is some difference, some not wanted metabolic products being formed or an enzyme or two or aspects of some enzyme function being taken out disproportionately

hopefully houstonni will switch to an airtight seal/screw lid, but i'm not holding my breath

though in fact even with an airtigh seal/lid there is still the need to replace the dessicant but it saves having to rebottle the enzymes in the first place. this is also an issue with candex

this whole issue of preserving opened bottles of supplements is more troublesome than i had thought and can throw a random pickaxe through a supplement program, candex is especially bad for losing potency.

a thread on pecanbread (11th july 04) titled 'enzyme question'

M's post:

are the acceptable enzymes and best for this diet, petizyde and no- phenol? i know i have to request scd version, but would like to

erify this is correct. thanks, M.

my reply:

ALL the houstonni enzymes are now scd legal since eliane gottschall has approved the rice bran oil

the order that the enzymes seems best tried are zyme, pep then no fenol

my strong preference is for the rice bran capsule versions.

P's question:

Are enzymes just taken with meals or with every snack also? Thanks in advance

my reply:

they are most efficent sprinkled on the food

with snacks its a sorta depends thing

how much and the type of snack................

one of the secrets i find is to warm all drinks, it keeps the stomach warm and at maximium efficency for the enzymes and stomach acid

ice cream apart from illegality aspects is very bad for this.

but basically the enzymes need to be used consistently with food

from a post about the use of enzymes and an antifungal/bacterial for stomach and intestinal yeast..

take one or two capsules on an empty stomach, say on getting up in the morning followed by one or two drops of oreganol about 3? 5? minutes or 15? minutes later works well.

the theory is that the enzymes make holes in the yeast wall to let the anti-yeast agent enter. no fenol may also be suitable for this purpose but candex seems to work best. there is an optimium time after taking the candex to take the oreganol, i think it depends how soon the capsule dissolves then it may also pay to take another few drops of oreganol say half an hour to an hour later. the dropping a no fenol in later than that again may be benefical.

an enzymesandaustim thread (14 june 04) titled ' participants needed to test enzyme product for (anti) viral'

karens post:

After a class of enzyme products is found reliably effective, the next idea would be to try combining it with something like

Lauricidin for a synergistic effect.

danas reply:

I use Zyme Prime with Lauricidin, and No-Fenol with olive leaf extract. I know my son is much better with these anti-virals when he takes them with these enzymes, but since I give all 4 of these together, I really can't tell you if the enzymes are also affecting the OTHER anti-viral [if that makes sense].

Anti-virals, especially Lauricidin, give my son MAJOR brain-yeast issues. So I give three different yeast killers, all required or the yeast returns, and the enzymes are affecting that also.

If this does not make sense, I can give more specific [eg: longer] info. Dana

my reply :

copper sebacate has a very strong anti viral effect. now also after taking it for a while i am also noticing strong general immune enhancement including intestinal yeast.

i am absolutely certain that the lack of bioaviable copper and the high standalone zinc dosing is the reason that supplementation done by parents of autistic children has been so problematic to date.

it does however require a broad detailed approach to minerals including zinc and selenium. copper sebacate works well with no fenol seems to give a surprisingly similar effect and enables me to *sorta* cut back on no fenol.

copper is the number one animal supplement and in hindsite is the first place i should have looked except for the current misinformation about copper

an enzymes and autism post (18 june 04) titled 'Candex and No- Fenol'

Does any one have experience with these? I see in several past posts people are using both of these. My daughter got real spacey and non compliant on Candex, so I am nervous about trying the No-Fenol to help combat yeast if it works in the same way. Can anyone explain this to me or are they two seperate supplements/ enzymes all together? Thanks in advance...Keri

my reply :

try cutting down to 1/16th of a capsule of candex

no fenol is not really targeted at yeast, helps phenol processing and provides the precusors for dopamine and other brain chemicals

hair and skin colour a bit light and poor tanning can be an indication no fenol will be of use, and also copper sebacate as they seem to work in similar ways.

an enzymesandautism thread (20th july 04) titled ''switching from HNI capsules to powder"

I know there has been discussion in the past about switching from HNI capsules to the new powders, but I can't seem to find the messages in the archive.

We have been on the new formula powders (NF and Pep) for about a month and a half now. It seemed my son's behavior changed for the worse starting at about that time. He has become much more ornery, unhappy, depressed, and obsessing about death. I remember some other people saying they had negative reactions, but I can't remember what they were or if they got better with time. I would really like to hear from people who have had this experience so I can figure out what I should do next. I'd really like to stick with the powders because my son doesn't swallow capsules yet and they are *so* much easier to mix with a drink than the capsules.

What is the difference here? Aren't they supposed to be the same formula? I know the filler is different, but what else? I'm just trying to figure out if I should stick this out a bit longer or go back to the old formula capsules.  L.

my reply:

the trouble is apparently the filler is very important for enzymes

it may be something subtle like the rice bran oil better protecting the enzymes until they get to the food to digest

really the way most people give enzymes they have no idea how efficient they are anyway, swallowing capsules is like 30% efficient compared to opening them and sprinkling on food

of course i have posted endlessly on this and being right is less important than some other fancy attribute, let me guess, manners?

L's reply:

I saw you write that taking enzymes in the capsules as opposed to mixing in food makes them only 30% effective. Is this the case if you transfer the enzymes from the vegetable capsule to a gelatin capsule? Thanks,  L.

my reply:

gelatine capsules are a big improvement in efficiency like say up to 50% but the whole 100% is needed and in my experience you only get that by sprinkling.

thats sprinkling on food on the plate and not mixing. sometimes i may mix enzymes in double cream.

tipping the loose powder down the back of the throat after the meal is ok if you forget. i don't mix enzymes with drinks as this dilutes the stomach contents.

generally i avoid diluting the stomach contents during a meal, no fluids half an hour before and up to an hour afterwards, though i may take a small amount of fluid soon after the meal as the enzymes seem to to use a bit of fluid as they digest the stomach contents.


"north's" experiment he posted on curezone, titled "Results of Big Yogurt Project: What kills good intestinal bacteria?"

Ever wonder which anti-candida products also kill the good bacteria? And which don't? So did I. So I did culture experiments using each of the products in the list at the bottom of this message, testing each one in milk with probiotics added, in a yogurt maker. I did a plain milk/probiotic culture each time as a comparison, in side-by-side containers.

Surprise! All three of the caprylic acid products I tested killed the good guys, despite the fact that manufacturers often say caprylic acid doesn't harm them.

Another surprise! Raw garlic completely killed the probiotics - not one speck of yogurt showed up in that batch! So if you take raw garlic, you better be also taking probiotics to replenish the good guys you are killing, and take that probiotic at a different part of the day than you are taking the raw garlic. Note that cooked garlic fell into the mostly safe result - that container looked totally different than the one with the raw garlic.

Another surprise (to me): the prescription Diflucan, which kills candida, only slightly reduced probiotics. Same thing with nystatin. Both of these prescriptions were much, much safer on the probiotics than raw garlic was.

And further shocks to me were the results of the enzyme products: the only enzyme product that I tested that was completely safe for the good guys was the one that only has cellulase, with no other enzymes in it. All of the other enzyme products I tested, that have protease, lipase, or other enzymes, killed the probiotics. Sheesh, so every time we take a digestive enzyme that has protease or lipase in it, we are risking our good guys...although healthy people would have enough good guys that the benefits of enzymes outweigh any risk, those of us with severe depletion of probiotics in the candida battle need to consider this carefully.

1. Products that tested "completely safe" on probiotics (they allowed the entire container to form yogurt, and resulting yogurt has a strong yogurt smell, with no off smells at all):

Enzyme product that has cellulase and amylase as its only enzymes
Raw onions

2. Products that tested "mostly safe" on probiotics (they allowed at least 60% of the container to form yogurt, and resulting yogurt had at least some yogurt smell, with no off smells at all):

Iosol iodine drops
Tea tree oil
Peppermint oil
Cooked garlic

Note: I didn't find that I had any "grey area" between categories 2 and 3: the containers were either very obviously in category 2, or very obviously in category 3.

3. Products that tested "Not safe" on probiotics (they either didn't allow any yogurt blob to form at all, or they allowed a small blob to form but that blob had a very "off" smell, with no normal yogurt smell at all, indicating that the result wasn't really yogurt)

Several types of antibiotics (no surprise that these didn't allow yogurt to form)
Goldenseal (an herb that fights infections and possibly fights candida)
Raw garlic
Mycopryl brand time-released caprylic acid
Caprystatin brand time-released caprylic acid
Capryl brand caprylic acid
Nattokinase enzyme supplement
Zyme-prime brand multi-enzyme supplement
Lipase enzyme powder



the article below says that norepinephrine turns on the dopamine producing neurons harder to compensate for the reduced number of dopamine neurons in parkinsons

no-fenol promotes dopamine directly through making more tyrosine avaliable form the diet and indirectly through this new mechanism of turning on dopamine neurons harder

makes me wonder what chelation has done to xyz's granddaughter who had developed arm tremors, she must have lost in the area of 60 - 80% of her dopamine producing neurons from her grandmothers rabid chelation of her


New evidence indicates that the loss of two types of brain cells--not just one as previously thought--may trigger the onset of symptoms associated with Parkinson's disease.

The evidence, based on mouse models, shows a link between the loss of both norepinephrine and dopamine neurons and the delayed onset of symptoms associated with Parkinson's disease. It was originally thought that the loss of only dopamine neurons triggered symptoms.

Dopamine is a neurotransmitter critical for coordinating movement.

Parkinson's disease affects motor coordination and is characterized by symptoms such as tremors of hands, arms, legs, jaw and face; rigidity or stiffness of limbs and trunk; bradykinesia, or slowness of movement; and postural instability. The disease most often occurs in those over 50.

"People don't start showing symptoms of Parkinson's disease until about 80 percent of their dopamine neurons are gone, which is when you cross some sort of threshold. Our study looked at what happens while the dopamine neurons are dying and people still appear fine, says Dr. Weinshenker. "The lack of symptoms until the death of most of the dopamine neurons suggested the existence of a system that can temporarily compensate for the loss of the dopamine."

"The dogma in the field is that Parkinson's disease involves a selective loss of dopamine neurons. The truth is, if you look at postmortem Parkinson's disease brains, you will see that both dopamine and norepinephrine neurons are gone," Dr. Weinshenker explains. "We know that norepinephrine is important for regulating the activity of dopamine neurons, so we suspected that the dopamine neurons and the norepinephrine neurons function in concert. As the dopamine neurons start dying, the norepinephrine neurons compensate by signaling the surviving dopamine cells to dramatically increase their activity and the output of dopamine. Eventually, the norepineprhine neurons die, the surviving dopamine neurons lose their ability to release extra dopamine, and symptoms start to appear."

To test their hypothesis, the researchers gave healthy, one-year-old mice the neurotoxin 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetra-hydropyridine (MPTP) at a dose that kills about 80 percent of the dopamine cells, but observed no motor impairments in the mice. Surprisingly, when they tested mice unable to synthesize norepinephrine and that have trouble releasing dopamine properly, they observed symptoms of Parkinson's disease including resting tremor, hunched posture and deficits in coordinated movement. These results indicate that having a normal complement of dopamine neurons is not enough for normal motor function; norepinephrine also needs to be present to ensure proper dopamine release.

"Although there are no cures for Parkinson's disease, some moderately effective treatments are available, but most target the dopamine neurons only and are effective for only a limited amount of time. In light of this study, it's quite possible that simultaneously treating both the dopamine and norepinephrine loss could further ameliorate the symptoms of Parkinson's disease, says Dr. Weinshenker/Karen Rommelfanger (august 2007)



one of the principles of the compendium is to “massage” sulphur chemistry

the thing about sulphur is it's the basic chemical “glue” in the body because its just the right stickiness, not too sticky yet it binds enough

the problem with heavy metals is they interfere with sulphurs role as a glue, for instance mercury binds to sulphur in preference to sulphur binding to anything else

now unfortunately zinc also is a heavy metal so that is why MSM is important for the compendium, to help massage some action from sulphur

you need zinc for its role as an anti-biofilmic and in the case of lead toxicity, to displace lead

 germanium  may also be of a help to displace lead and mercury


large regular doses of MSM are extremely mobilising of heavy metals and the mobile toxic metals will permanently damage the brain, thyroid and kidneys beyond recovery in a manner charateristic of  chelation

even a single large dose may be a problem, some people seem to take it by the teaspoon full

DMSO is used to lower high blood pressure in the brain, a friend with lowish blood pressure and circulation problems used it topically and in her words :

“yes i did but only twice got a really weird feeling in my head both times and didn't really want to try it again”


i am taking very small amounts of the trimedica pure msm powder (4 oz jar), which is in fact rebadged lignisul msm which is imo the best msm

i just dip a large empty capsule (the twinlab 500mg niacin ones) in and scoop some msm up so its about 3/4 full and then tip about 1/8th (70mg) - 1/5th (112mg) (1/4 of a capsule = 140 mg) of a capsule down my throat once every two or three or four days










keep the msm

in the





i feel that to do this safely your metals need to be below a certain level and i also think the heart gets a bit soft from msm and the beat gets upset a bit, vitamin D helps correct the beat

there is a substantial complex oxidant/anti-oxidant effect, very useful for overhigh red blood cells/iron especially in the context of synergies with the other compendium supplements, including vitamin C, MSM may need vitamin C to be effective in helping with joint pain !

MSM used in this cautious way seems best, it seems to reduce some sort of molecule backlog at cell membranes

freeing up thryoid receptor action may be a notable benefit and greatly improve thyroid hormone response

this dosing may not seem like much but it works very well to keep my lower back painfree and supple.

it used to be that if i didn't take msm, then about four to seven days later i felt the lower back (annular tear?) start to stiffen a bit, but now my back seems to have healed to the point where i don't notice not taking msm in terms of my lower back pain.

msm promotes glutathione which protects enzymes from oxidation   study

msm taken on an empty stomach seems to have issues, needs to be taken with just the right amount of food in the stomach, not too much and not too little and in the right window of digestion and a touch of vitamin C a bit later or at the same time

msm keeps for years, it's an oxidant itself and doesn't oxidise, just needs a dry dessicant dropping in occasionally to help keep it free flowing

part of the fillip MSM gives must be from it increasing bile and the promotion of thyroid hormone by bile  study

bile increases D2 iodothyronine deiodinase activity which converts more T4 to T3  study


i do not take MSM daily, thats quite important, tho it is useful for improving stomach acid and bile













and it










need it

i take 1/5th





(tip of the















i axed the spine of a freshly killed possum and you can see the cross section like the wiki   article

the annular ring (annulus fibrosus) and the shock absorbing center and the spinal cord and foramen/adipose tissue

quite neat really and shows how remarkably similar possum's are to humans

the vertical thickess of the annular ring is not very thick, can see it might wear, would get a lot of work and no doubt MSM makes it more permeable and able to self repair

msm probably makes the annulus swell up a bit and rehydrate too, thus taking pressure off the nerves

i think the rehydration of collagen is important

msm may also downregulate the enzymes that attack connective and joint tissue, along with onion, leeks and garlic !   study


MSM has an anti-viral action.

this may be due to facilitating antibodies crossing the cell wall to act against antigens within the cell !

the big problem with taking it too frequently and in too large amounts is it mobilises heavy metals in a not good way

you can fry your brain permanently using large doses

msm is very effective for reducing allergic swelling from insect bites, especially the jack jumper stings here in australia

112 mg of msm taken an hour after getting bitten by a jack jumper had eliminated the swelling within an hour and half, no vitamin C was taken with it

dmso  is semi effective applied to insect bites

it goes on the skin and you have to be careful because it's so well absorbed it carries whatever is on the skin through to the blood

like if you had a poison on the skin and then put dmso on it, it could carry that through to the blood

“ it penetrates the skin very readily, giving it the unusual property of being secreted onto the surface of the tongue after contact with the skin and causing a garlic-like taste in the mouth. ”

msm and dmso are potent mobilisers of heavy metals especially lead from bone and mercury in the brain so be cautious, these metals mobilised can do a lot of damage

i did use dmso for an extended period once but stopped because of it making sleep difficult

consistent large doses of MSM can cause substantial permanent loss of large scale neural structures in a similar manner to chelation i.e. brain damage

the upwards limits of msm appear to be the skin getting too soft on the knuckles and the heart getting a bit floppy from the connective tissue softening in it.

also since msm reduces the serotonin binding ability of cells by increasing cell permeability, sleep becomes shorter

that's  lignisul  msm, quality/purity is very important, i used some msm of unknown asian or indian origin and it did not have the same effect. lignisul appears to be the only satisfactory source manufacturer, the 'cardinal' brand appears not to be ok.

i am using the trimedica pure msm powder which doesn't have any filler and in reality is the lignisul rebranded.

i take the msm mixed with a small amount of water, mixing with water seems to make it less irritating to the stomach, but actually recently , taking it once every 3 days, it may be better just to swallow the powder (october 06)

may clear traffic backlogs at the cell membrane

all the stuff on the web about taking large dose msm is bullshit!

it's extraordinarily potent

has addiction issues

you have to watch the tendency to want more and more but if you do that you will lower blood pressure too much, mess cell membrane function and deplete needed minerals as well as the heavy metals

seems to improve mitochondrial function

really improves the synergies of my supplement program

i think the notion of it making the cell membranes more permeable, more permeable than is healthy but allows clearance of a traffic backlog across the membrane fits


a who_knows post titled “how to think about msm”

it reduces the backlog of chemical traffic across the cell membrane

you know like molecules piled up needing to get in and perhaps also inside a cell needing to get out

now this backlog is a part of normal cell function, if you go too long without a backlog, things go awry

but every now then it greatly helps to drive this backlog right down and thats what msm does

so about 50 - 70 mg seems to do this

the quality is very important, lignisul is the best source manufacturer (trimedica pure msm is one retail brand that uses lignisul)


may 2006, i had dropped msm for a year? and just started it again and amazed that it fixed my back, just amazed, not why i took it, but my lower back is much much better

“New MRI techniques show that facet joint effusion (the collection of fluid in the spinal joints) and interspinal ligament edema (swelling

of the interspinal ligaments) are major sources of lower back pain”  study

the thing about msm is it is extraodinarily bioactive and also mobilises mercury in the brain and possibly lead from the bone

so these people taking gram doses are killing themselves

i took about 70mg which is a tiny amount on thursday and saturday and bingo, my lower back is no longer sore on waking up or the rest of the day

also the make of the msm has to be lignisul, trimedica make a 'pure msm powder' which is in fact lignisul and doesn't have any additives.

if you have any brain mercury issues or bone lead it may be possible to offset the increased heavy metal mobilization effects of msm with moderately larger amounts of my dual selenium protocol

given the VERY strong heavy metal lifting effect of msm, i am not sure that msm is safe to take at all, if you have amalgam fillings in, or eat seafood or mercury contaminated fresh fish, or have lead exposure

if MSM is taken too often it makes for early waking and a disrupted sleep, wether this is due to heavy metal mobilisation, i am not sure, but could be mercury winding up in the pituitary and disturbing melatonin synthesis in the pineal gland  study



these are sorta half-way supplements, they do something but in the end i couldn't be bothered with them, not saying they are not useful though  !  : o ) (

in fact neither was quite right and some combination of them seemed to be most balanced, like 50/50

they certainly do something for the brain sugar, but are a bit, or more than a bit, 'crash and burn' after wearing off.

also they are hygroscopic and soak up moisture, wether this affects how well they keep, i don't know

dmg/tmg are immune system modulators and because they methylate, may be of assistance with  rheumatoid  and perhaps osteoarthritis, maybe abit like ldn ?

another  paper  identifying reduced methylation at one small location in the gene for the destructive enzyme mmp13 leading to higher levels of that enzyme in people with osteoarthritis !

an excellent  paper  discussing what epigenetics is and the roles of hypo and hypermethylation in cancer

“ hypermethylation, which represses transcription of the promoter regions of tumor suppressor genes leading to gene silencing..... ”

hypomethylation also has its downsides in promoting cancer, particularly reduced thymidine pools leading to “increased incorporation of uracil into dna, thereby resulting in strand breaks that are precursors for chromosome translocations and deletions ”........

folate is is important for dna methylation and dna synthesis/repair and may also have a beneficial effect for rheumatoid arthritis

“ folate deficiency has been shown to result in both hypo and hyper gene-specific methylation.  in animal studies, folate deficiency has been shown to result in exon-specific hypomethylation of the p53 gene87 as well as increased dna methyltransferase activity.

however, with continued folate deficiency, an increase in both p53 and genome-wide methylation was seen ”

so it's a complex and not exactly resolvable picture : o )

methylation agonists in addition to dmg and tmg are are folate, possibly zinc, b6/magnesium and calcium but strontium is an antagonist !

illys wrote  (march 2015)  :   Slightly higher iodine and TMG really kicked things back into gear though.  Salivation came back.  Some sort of mechanism of TMG helping utilize seleniums ?  Could be speculation.



CO-Q10 really gives a lift, thins the blood and is good for heart troubles, but unfortunately it feeds malign biofilm and after several days of taking it a major, though subtle yeast/biofilm problem develops !

the better absorbed ?  version,  ubiquinol  also seems to feed biofilm, though not as bad, but seems to signifcantly lower blood pressure which doesn't suit me as i have lowish blood pressure !

eileen said it also made for a mood change, neither of us have tried it again !

the basic problem is, it is a large  molecule  (what is Q10? tab)  and not well absorbed because of this, in fact the body manufactures it's own and our guts have not evolved to take in significant amounts dietarily !

people with leaky guts are going to absorb it better  . . ! :o(

ubiquinol is different from CO-Q10  (ubiquinone) ,  being metabolically downstream of CO-Q10

a relative uses Thompson's Co-Enzyme Q10  (100mg betacarotene 9mg mixed tocopherol concentrate - natural vit E - 100iu 269mg)  to help with migraine and possibly reducing blood viscosity which it seems to do, but imo the bioflm promotion is too much !

“ Among the nonenzymic antioxidants two different dose-response  patterns  (ed. to uv light on the skin)  were seen. Ascorbate was rapidly depleted at doses between 0 and 5 J/cm2 but was less affected between 5 and 25 J/cm2. In contrast, glutathione, ubiquinol/one, and alpha-tocopherol levels remained approximately equal to control levels between 0 and 5 J/cm2, then decreased to varying degrees from 5 to 25 J/cm2; ubiquinol was almost completely depleted, whereas alpha-tocopherol dropped only 30%. The concentration of lipid hydroperoxides increased throughout the dose range. These results may be explained partly by direct destruction of some antioxidants by UV light, partly by the separate antioxidant functions of the compounds, and partly by recycling of some antioxidants  (e.g., alpha-tocopherol)  at the expense of others  (e.g., ubiquinol)  ”


“ the issue with CoQ10 has always been  the uptake .  the molecule is a natural part of the body’s energy production and free radical quenching systems and is found in the mitochondria, the organelles within the cell responsible for energy production.  because the body manufactures this molecule on its own,   there are no specific transport mechanisms devoted to it ,  making the problem of getting supplemental CoQ10 into the mitochondria a difficult proposition ”



of concern with taking oils are damaging  effects  on the liver

krill and fish oils are useful but cod liver oil is completely different and not recomended on the compendium! 

adequate DHA is very  important  in the expectant mothers diet and is protective
against age-related macular degeneration !

two cautions with fish oil,  it reduces plasma  concentrations  of vitamin E and deprecates
electrical activity in pancreatic  beta  cells !

so if you supplement fish oil, you may need to supplement vitamin E !

“one of the things we know is as you get older you  lose  DHA from the brain ”

this  research  says that there is aproblem with the higher than normal DHA to EPA ratios of some modified fish oils because EPA has an anti-depressive effect !

the normal unmodified ratio is about 1:2

sunflower oil needs to be taken in the morning after food because it interferes with sleep, but fish oil doesn't seem to and can be taken up to say half an hour before bed !

krill oil has phospholipids in as well as the omega three's and I think it distinctly helps with memory !

I take 3 to 500mg of krill oil once or twice daily, beware  rancidity  !

it's a large gelatine capsule, what i find is that it's better to crush the capsule with the teeth in the mouth and chew it to extract the krill oil, then  (if i need to take it within about four hours of going to bed) ,  remove the capsule from the mouth and discard it to prevent the gelatine just sit in the stomach when sleeping as it can feed biofilm/microbiome !

this may be a general issue with soft gelatine capsules, particularly in combination with immune suppressors like fish and krill oil !

the benefit of krill oil over fish oil is that the long-chain omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA are carried by phospholipids rather than triglycerides !

also i take extra virgin olive oil  (cobram estate, classic and robust flavours, australia)  somewhat consistently/randomly and hopefully not more than a year old as the older olive oils definitely seem to lose something ! :o(

i find using a wine vacuum pump and sealer really makes the EVOO keep its quality much longer !

on a 2012 trip to new zealand the good health brand “health guard” and thompson fish oil capsules seemed ok !  i took about four to five a day !

the above are normal fish oils, the high dha type i am not sure about !

high DHA may be needed for cholesterol problems ! there is also a high EPA version !

(ed. northstar's who_knows post  #18033  on high epa (800mg) fish oil daily over several months being beneficial for one of her daughters and improving sensory processing)

the downside of DHA is it provides material for building viral envelopes, so there could be issues with taking high DHA oils if you have a supressed immune system !

fish oil is very fragile, i go for the latest expiry date code possible and keep even capsule versions in the fridge (when the capsule bottle is opened) !

you can take fish oil closer to bed, it doesn't seem to affect sleep as adversely the way say sunflower or safflower oil does if taken too close to bed!

fish oil gives a baby soft skin and really helps with joints and the brain !

freshness, the right balance and spacing of taking of efas are very important, especially for pregnant women.

“ if a mother's diet contains n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids such as those found in fish, walnut oil or flaxseed the baby's gut develops differently.

they are thought to improve how gut immune cells respond to bacteria and foreign substances, making the baby less likely to suffer from allergies. ”       study

in general oils and fats are anti-biofilmic

“ A newborn infant's brain is 50 percent DHA, However, babies and toddlers have immature livers and can't synthesize enough DHA to ensure an adequate supply to their developing nerve tissues. If small children are going to get DHA, they must ingest it in their food. ”  study

non organic soybean oil (aka the coles smart buy oil from argentina, in australia) seems to be ok and has reasonable levels of gamma tocopherol for an oil

refined soybean tocopherol levels: alpha 83 mg/kg, beta 34 mg/kg, gamma 662 - 758 mg/kg, delta 276 -287mg/kg

a good google  book  "Fatty Acids in Foods and Their Health Implications"

cod liver oil has toxicity issues imo and years of observation of the effects of use on the message boards of parents with children with developmental issues have confirmed my original view, they just do not do well enough on it

in australia, the phase 5 brand, extra virgin camellia tea oil taken as a teaspoon or two after the meal rather than fried with, seems a good source of omega 9's plus promotes bile and has an anti-viral effect, however sufficiently fresh camellia tea oil is no longer available here

it also seems to have some anti-biofilmics in that settle the stomach

the amount of camellia tea oil needs to be metered as too much seems to make for poor sleep, and is best used on the morning meal only

the extra virgin organic camellia tea oil may be a reasonable source of mixed tocopherols, and hopefully gamma tocopherol is there in reasonable quantity, the presence of gamma tocopherol might be more hope than fact though, i cannot find any data on it

in march 2010 there was a benzopyrene  contaminated  batch recalled in china

cod liver oil is discouraged on the BCD, but fish oil with DHA really grows the brain, the downside is that it also promotes viruses by providing material for the viral envelopes

watch out for rancidity as most oils are fragile

also sleep destroying anti-oxidants in oils like TBHQ (319) and BHA (320) are a problem


grapeseed oil is good if fresh

flavouring additives like lemon oil and rosemary extract seem to be a problem in oils

borage/starflower and evening primrose oil (high gla oils) are useful (especially for female hormones) but need to be taken in tiny doses and perhaps not every day as they disrupt sleep

eye q is an excellent product and a good way of taking metered evening primrose oil (10mg gla) per capsule with excellent quality fish oil, i take one capsule every one or two or three days

i'd take it more frequently except the evening primrose oil seems to reduce GABA or is otherwise stimulatory to the brain and makes going to sleep more difficult

its surprisingly helpful with osteoarthritis

gamma linolenic acid (gla) tightens the endothelial cell junctions in the gut wall, interior surfaces of the blood vessels, cornea and lymph system

i find all the oils except olive oil have to be taken in the morning to avoid disrupting sleep

basically i have dropped grapeseed and camellia tea oils, the grapeseed and camellia tea oil because they are effectively unavailable

olive oil i limit the use of


"Many of the genes that are turned on by unsaturated fatty acids (DHA changes the expression of the most genes - 600) are involved in breaking down fatty acids to generate energy.

This mechanism likely protects the liver cell from build-up of unsaturated fatty acids, which is harmful to the cell. It also likely accounts for the lowering of plasma triglycerides by fish oil"


fish oil/omega 3 suppresses the bodies anti-viral immune system and reduces cell binding of melatonin so i try and take it in the morning, and if i have a virus or expect to be exposed to one i would stop taking it for a day or two

however it is a strong anti-inflamatory and useful for asthma and allergies

resolvin E1 (RvE1) is a metabolic product of an omega-3 fatty acid found in cold-water fish such as salmon, mackerel and anchovies. it is made by the body in response to the onset of inflammation. this study identified RvE1 as having a key role in both dampening the development of airway inflammation and promoting its resolution in mice, in part by dampening innate immune signals that trigger inflammation.

also contributing to the pro-resolution effects of RvE1 treatment were higher concentrations of interferon- in the lungs of RvE1-treated mice.

when they added Resolvin D2 they found that the endothelial cells produced small amounts of nitric oxide, which acts as a chemical signal discouraging the white blood cells from sticking to the endothelial cells and preventing inflammation.    study

the body converts DHA into resolvin and a small amount has a large effect

i am taking one to two teapsoons of liquid fish oil daily, you can synchronise taking it with food to take advantage of its anti-biofilmic effect

fish oil goes off easily so generally i don't usually continue with an opened bottle beyond about 3 1/2 weeks

i always have a spare unopened bottle in the fridge that i store upside down so that the heavier fractions in the oil end up at the top of the bottle

this is so that i can just move onto the next bottle when i feel the oil has lost something












an elderly woman i know of became a severe viral shedder from taking 1 gram of fish oil (in a capsule - likely blackmores) three times a day. this is a good illustration of how fish oil can suppress the bodies anti-viral immune system

she was taking it for joint problems and it made no difference. i have suggested she cut back to one gram/capsule a day

lisa writes: “ I was taking 3 or more grams of fish oil for the Huntington's protection for a bit and noticed that I caught more bugs and my knee actually hurt more. I stopped it a few months ago and have less joint pain and catch fewer bugs. ”

1.9 grams of fish oil in a teaspoon and 5.8 grams in a desert spoon as measured on my jewellers scales which makes a desertspoon three times the volume of a teaspoon !

vitamin D/skin d is also very suppressive of the anti-viral immune system so you need to watch out for the double whammy effect of the two together, and each alone of course

degradation of fish oil in a way that is not detectable by taste is a major issue, i never get more than 2/3 of the way through bottle before having to chuck it as going from a good to a negative effect, cracks on the corners of the mouth can be a sign its gone off

so it's very fragile and absolutely needs to be ok and kept in the fridge, and tossed after a months use or sooner, regardless of how much is left in the bottle

interestingly an eye q bottle i had bought had the lid loose on it so i assume that it had been loose for quite a while before i bought it and the capsules from that bottle made me very depressed so i assume they had degraded from exposure to air

i try to get the eye q bottle refreshed with dry dessicants but i do notice they have degraded towards the end of the bottle, maybe i should keep them in the refrigerator once opened.

obviously the soft gelatine capsules used are fairly permeable and i notice that the hard gelatine shell type capsules also permit moisture to get in


Fish oil fed mice have impaired resistance to influenza infection

Dietary fish oils, rich in (n-3) PUFA, including eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid, have been shown to have antiinflammatory properties.

“Although the anti-inflammatory properties of fish oil may be beneficial during a chronic inflammatory illness, the same anti-inflammatory properties can suppress the inflammatory responses necessary to combat acute viral infection.

Given that (n-3) fatty acid-rich fish oil supplementation is on the rise and with the increasing threat of an influenza pandemic, we tested the effect of fish oil feeding for 2 wk on the immune response to influenza virus infection.

Male C57BL/6 mice fed either a menhaden fish oil/corn oil diet (4 g fish oil:1 g corn oil, wt:wt at 5 g/100 g diet) or a control corn oil diet were infected with influenza A/PuertoRico/8/34 and analyzed for lung pathology and immune function.

Although fish oil-fed mice had lower lung inflammation compared with controls, fish oil feeding also resulted in a 40% higher mortality rate, a 70% higher lung viral load at d 7 post infection, and a prolonged recovery period following infection.

Although splenic natural killer (NK) cell activity was suppressed in fish oil-fed mice, lung NK activity was not affected.

Additionally, lungs of infected fish oil-fed mice had significantly fewer CD8+ T cells and decreased mRNA expression of macrophage inflammatory protein-1-alpha, tumor necrosis factor-alpha, and interleukin-6.

These results suggest that the anti-inflammatory properties of fish oil feeding can alter the immune response to influenza infection, resulting in increased morbidity and mortality.”


"The retina has one of the highest concentrations of omega-3 fatty acids in the body, given this, it is remarkable that with only a two percent change in dietary omega-3 intake, we observed an approximate 40-50 percent decrease in retinopathy severity."

Kip Connor, Ph.D., childrens hospital , boston.  study


"There was a strong inverse association between levels of DHA and EPA and wet AMD. People in the top 25% of DHA and EPA levels (300 mg per day and above) were 70% less likely to have wet AMD."

my comment: 70% is quite a bit less likely

vision loss with the aged is huge and inevitable to the extent that these very old record holders all die with very impaired vision or are blind

article:  eat oily fish at least once a week to protect your eyesight in old age

Eating oily fish once a week may reduce age-related macular degeneration (AMD) which is the major cause of blindness and poor vision in adults in western countries and the third cause of global blindness, according to a study published in august 2008 in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

There are two types of AMD, wet and dry. Of the two, wet AMD is the main cause of vision loss. A team of researchers across seven European countries and co-ordinated by the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine sought to investigate the association between fish intake and omega 3 fatty acids with wet AMD, comparing people with wet AMD with controls. Participants were interviewed about their dietary habits including how much fish they ate and what type. Information on the main omega 3 fatty acids (docosahexaenoicacid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) was obtained by linking dietary data with food composition tables.

The findings show that people who habitually consume oily fish at least once a week compared with less than once a week are 50% less likely to have wet AMD. There was no benefit from consumption of non oily white fish. There was a strong inverse association between levels of DHA and EPA and wet AMD. People in the top 25% of DHA and EPA levels (300 mg per day and above) were 70% less likely to have wet AMD.

Astrid Fletcher, Professor of Epidemiology at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, who led the study, commented: "This is the first study in Europeans to show a beneficial association on wet AMD from the consumption of oily fish and is consistent with results from studies in the USA and Australia. Two 3oz servings a week of oily fish, such as salmon, tuna or mackerel, provides about 500 mg of DHA and EPA per day".

The research team is not, however, recommending omega 3 supplements as the study did not investigate whether supplements would have the same benefit as dietary sources.


“ a diet lacking in omega-3 fatty acids could cause the brain to age faster and lose some of its memory and thinking abilities.

middle-aged and elderly adults who regularly consume foods rich in omega-3 fatty acids could slow the mental decline that leads to dementia � noting that those with the highest blood levels of DHA and EPA were more likely to perform well on tests of mental functioning and to experience less age-related brain shrinkage.

the  study  authors said that whilst previous research linking dementia risk with the omega-3 fatty acids had looked at in blood plasma, which reflects how much people had eaten in the past few days, their current work estimated the amount of omega-3 participants had consumed over the last few months by looking at how much had built up in red blood cells.

people with lower blood levels of omega-3 fatty acids had lower brain volumes that were equivalent to about two years of structural brain aging

low DHA levels in red blood cells "are associated with smaller brain volumes and a `vascular' pattern of cognitive impairment even in persons free of clinical dementia."

in the new study, over 1,500 dementia free participants with an average age of 67 underwent MRI brain scans. The group were also tested to measure mental function, body mass, and the omega-3 fatty acid level in their red blood cells was sampled.

people with DHA levels in the lowest 25% of the participants (the bottom quartile) had lower brain volume compared to people who had higher DHA levels. the brain volume was enough to make people in the bottom quartile's brains appear two years older than those of people in the top three-quarters.

the researchers added that participants with levels of all omega-3 fatty acids in the bottom quartile also scored lower on tests of visual memory and executive function, such as problem solving and multi-tasking and abstract thinking.

brain scans also showed signs of less blood supply in the brains of people with the lowest omega-3 levels. this may mean DHA plays a role in promoting general health of blood vessels in the brain in a similar way to how the omega-3's are suggested to be aid heart health.

up to 15% of the brain by dry weight is made up of DHA. One of the things we know is as you get older you lose DHA from the brain so it would seem to make some sense that you might want to replace it ”


with the exception of extra virgin olive oil and soybean oil which get too stiff to pour if put in the fridge, all these oils should be kept in the fridge to reduce the rate of oxidation.

for extra virgin oil oil which i take occasionally, i use a wine vacum pump to evacuate the bottle and keep it in a cool place.

olive oil being high oleic acid does not appear to reduce melatonin binding by cells.

if i can get fresh home grown lemons i will take one teaspoon of melrose organic sunflower (lead free australian) and one teaspoon of melrose fish oil with freshly squeezed lemon or lime juice poured into a small glass first (i worry about lead leaching in cup glazes with an acid), then the sunflower oil mixed in, then the fish oil mixed in, then swallow the emulsion.

i take this once a day in the morning and perhaps away from food as it seems to inhibit digestion

the emulsion should be drunk soon after the oils are poured to reduce oxidation damage to them. if you mix the emulsion thoroughly and make the droplets small then this will aid digestion of the oil. i used to take the emulsion after breakfast but now leave it a while before taking, as this seems to be easier on the stomach.

my weight is 110lbs or 50kg, doses are adjusted for weight within reason, like 90 to 120lbs i would keep the same dose

you can modulate the oiliness/acidity of the emulsion to just about right depending.

mixing oil with vinegar so that the oil droplets in the emulsion are small and the maximal surface area of the oil is exposed may be a signficant aid to oil digestion for those with their gall bladders removed

removal of the gall bladder is done far too casually as it is an extremely signficant organ and the prognosis of removal is slow downhill decline

i have dropped flax seed oil as on balance it may be immuno-supressive and certainly the unrefined versions contain cyanogenic glycosides. fish oil is also immunosupressive but on balance is worth it.

“ in the general population, the average rate of premature births is 2 to 3 percent. but for women consuming flaxseed oil in their last two trimesters that number jumps up to 12 percent ”   study

i am not sure about flax seed oil, it may have a place because the phytoestrogens from flax can delay the onset of  benign prostate hyperplasia,  but it's a very perishable oil

phytoestrogens can have an complex estrogenic/anti-estrogenic effect     study

i find evening primrose oil a bit disruptive of sleep but it is good for female hormones, menopausal type changes and bone formation (provided it is not taken to excess, maybe best taken say once every three or four days?). it is quite popular with women for prevention of menstral cramps.

evening primrose oil or borage oil (also known as starflower oil) is better taken occasionally, like once every three or four days or longer as it seems to make the brain run faster and make going to sleep more diffcult as well as shortening sleep time.

actually i even find that sunflower oil in the evening is too stimulating for me, it may be a brain developmental difference compared to S., or she has a more adequate serotoninogenic system.

borage/starflower oil may be better than evening primrose oil

canola oil i think on balance has something not quite right, though in theory a good oil, in practice i don't use it because it interferes with  sleep

this  study  says canola oil reduces levels of amyloid beta 1-40, which acts as a buffer from the harmful amyloid beta 1-42 which is crucially involved in alzheimer’s disease

“ the mice that consumed canola oil over the six months suffered impairments in working memory ”

organic cold pressed sunflower oil is pretty good, but really vectoring on one oil should be avoided and several types used.

high oleic acid  (cooking)  sunflower and safflower oils  (79% oleic acid)  promote serotonin binding by cells, but ordinary sunflower oil has good oleic acid levels  (33%)  in anyway, so wether its worth the trouble of having a high oleic acid verison i don't know

basically fish oil  (dha/epa)  is the most important, as some of the other efas come to some extent with land animal meat, but not omega 3's.

an adequate fish oil will help with intestinal permeablity but you need to follow the peroxide level in the oil once its opened since the nutritional benefit can become negative well before the bottle is finished, needs to stored in the fridge as well

omega threes are very important in pregnancy

the company 'ocean nutrition' in canada also make good omega oils, for instance they sell the meg-3 brand into israel in varying concentrations, also there are some australian brands selling their oil, will update when i find out and try them.

efalex/efamol is 1/4 evening primrose oil and 3/4 fish oil, might be some issue of them spoiling each other being mixed in the same bottle, there's something i can't quite put my finger on, it not being quite satisfactory. mixtures/ratios in supplements always seem to be trouble.

i do think that in refining cod liver oil, that retaining the vitamin A and d means some compromises in removal of toxins are made so i am wary of cod liver oil, or at least the ones avaliable in australia, but will look further into this.

conversely the molecular refining of omega oils can be very efficient at removing heavy metals and organic toxins. toxins in fish especially fish in european is waters a MAJOR issue. mercury in fish and marine mammals however has always been an issue with the mercury coming from underwater volcanic action.

overdoing these things is as much of a problem as underdoing them and maybe foods like freshly caught trevally (quite an oily fish and not to large or high in the food chain, hence not too accumulated with mercury) here in tasmania maybe an ideal source of dha.

as far as i can see DHA/EPA is the same as the phospholipids in eggs and soy lecithin. i have a medium boiled good quality egg a day. soy lecithin is hard to find that is not rancid and has digestiablity issues i find. these phospolipids may also be in cold pressed sunflower and safflower oil the efas are so fragile that they degrade well before you can tell the oils  (cold pressed safflower, sunflower and flax seed oil)  are rancid

from a practical point of view safflower oil gooes rancid very very quickly so i don't bother with it now !

sunflower oil seems to keep reasonably well in the fridge, once opened !

how i know they have gone off is i will develop slight splits on the corners of the mouth

looking at this a bit more it may be the phospolipids dha/epa that go off very quickly in the oils as these are very fragile

eggs do provide these i think

it may well be that viruses consume these oils, so winter and viral infections may run out these oils and leave the body short.

good eggs are a life saver, but so hard to get.

freshness can be tested by the degree to which the egg starts to float and how tight the membrane immeadiately below the shell clings to the white it if the egg has been boiled. the freshest is when the membrane immeadiately below the shell clings very tightly to the white and you have to pick the shell off in small bits rather than it easily come away from the white with the membrane intact and sticking to the shell.

oleocanthal in olive oil inhibits the prostagladin pathway

don't quite like this, case for limiting daily intake of oilve oil, maybe virgin grade compared to extra virgin doesn't have it in so much

Phytochemistry:   Ibuprofen-like activity in extra-virgin olive oil

“ Newly pressed extra-virgin olive oil contains oleocanthal, a compound whose pungency induces a strong stinging sensation in the throat, not unlike that caused by solutions of the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug ibuprofen.

We show here that this similar perception seems to be an indicator of a shared pharmacological activity, with oleocanthal acting as a natural anti-inflammatory compound that has a potency and profile strikingly similar to that of ibuprofen.

Although structurally dissimilar, both these molecules inhibit the same cyclooxygenase enzymes in the prostaglandin-biosynthesis pathway ”

i don't use oils for frypan cooking anymore they seem to be too degraded by it.

so i use suet beef fat from the local abattoir and thats the best fat for frying or sometimes melt marrow bone fat down and discard the solid part, as that is high iron and my iron is too high but if your iron was low, that is the best part, only heat so its edible and don't try to melt most of the fat out.

if you are myeloproliferative, bone marrow mightn't be such a good idea

autism-challenge post (nov 5th 2005) titled Re: There are antiserotonin's and they are used to treat migraines

thats really interesting and ties in with using fats/efa's to modulate serotonin levels

i seem to go in low/high serotonin cycles with low serotonin being not migriany but spacy and almost manic and that will reach some sort of manic state and then it will all crash like the serotonin switch gets switched on and migraine and a slow down sets in

there must be some genetic pathway that is switched on when serotonin has been too low for too long and increases the cell membrane uptake of serotonin and perhaps its manufacture


i noiced that when taking a teaspoon or so a day of high oleic acid (cooking oil) sunflower oil that my sleep drastically improved and conversely the high safflower oil content of efalex drastically made my sleep worse over a while

the reason may be the differential modulation of membrane serotonin binding capacity by fats   abstract

that is, if you have the synaptic membranes too permeable (makes sense because msm would make the membranes more permeable and poorer sleep is an issue with msm) membrane serotonin binding capcacity is low and possibly synapses are hyperexicited (corresponding to migraine aura and mania?)

fish oil and the standard 'good efas' like linoleic acid and alpha and gamma linoleic acids would also make for more permeable membranes

so thats less viscosity and its more viscosity of the brain and synaptic membranes that increases the serotonin binding (oleic acid, like lamb fat increases membrane serotonin binding capacity?)

this seems to correspond what happens to me


now the other side, stearic acid seems to get converted to oleic acid by a liver enzymes

study  titled "More 'Friendly' News About Chocolate And Beef"

so oleic acid which seems to increase the microviscosity or makes the cell membranes less permeable which improves serotonin binding and hence sleep and mood and lack of hyper mood swings

so there is this more general issue of getting the right brain crude membrane and synaptosomal permiablity and just doing the conventional efa thing is likely to create sleep issues

the opposite extreme of poor sleep is high serotonin and migraine so you have to strike a balance since the intracranial arteries are more sensitive to serotonin caused constriction than extracranial arteries.

a positive of susceptibility to migraine is good serotonin binding potential on the cell membranes


just about all the meat in australasia is grass fed so i am relying on that for CLA

i don't think frozen meat is any good, even if it is grass grazed as the CLA would oxidise after a week or so in the freezer

this  study  mentions CLA causing insulin resistance and non alcoholic fatty liver disease though DHA does help offset these affects

i don't know the amounts and it must be a question of degree but it does raise a question about supplementing with it, or at least the need for some balancing DHA




a bit










in the usa !

as to




supplementing CLA





I emailed Melrose health (Australia - 5th february 2007):

“ I like and use your oils a lot, but was wondering about the source of your organic sunflower oil a bit as there is apparently an issue with sunflowers grown in lead and mercury contaiminated fields in the usa.

This problem is from way back when mercury and lead were used in fertilisers to inhibit fungal growth in the soil and unfortunately the lead stays in the soil forever.

Unfortunately the IFOAM organic certification doesn't test farm conversions to organic for this problem.

The label says from Australian and imported IFOAM certified organic oils, so i was wondering if any USA oils were used.

“My name is Gene Elwell from AMSTI we what we found out how Lead & small traces of mercury in Sun Flower Seeds, is farmers use to add lead & mercury to the fertilizer to control fungus in the soil to yield a greater harvest per acre. I used my self as a the test subject in the report on our site. A certified technician ran a baseline test on me the test subject swabbing my gum line, the following day I consumed 2 1/2 ozs from the bag of seeds with shells, spitting out the shells then seven hours later the technician swabbed my gumline again. The next day I consumed the remainder of the bag 2 1/2 ozs, waited another seven hours and swabbed my gum line again. The results showed the first baseline test I had a .15 ug/dl indicating a very low level of exposure, second test showed .89 ug/dl the final swab test showed 1.05 ug/dl a sharp increase. I am a 6' 2" male 250 lbs. The brand of seeds was the same as the family in Virginia. The laboratory Hyphenated Solutions LLLP from Arkansas State University completed the analysis, and also found lead in the print on the bag.”

their reply:

“Oleic Sunflower Oil (cooking) is sourced from the US. The linolenic Salad version is from Australia.”


HP, being a reactive oxygen species (ros), is not just an immune stimulant, but also has a direct  chemo  effect against some skin cancers and conditions

i find dabbing iodine on a spot i want to remove for several days before hand greatly helps the efficacy of using the  35%  HP

why preconditioning skin flaws/spots, pre-cancers and cancers with iodine before the application of  35%  hydrogen peroxide may be that it  wakes up  stem cells harboring mutations which then exposes them to the immune action excited by the hp  (and also the iodine)

40% HP is used for  seborrheic keratosis

hydrogen peroxide is a  treatment  for HPV

boiling the needle  (used to scratch whatever)  to sterilize it would be adequate i think


you have to get food grade  35%  HP  over the internet ,  its not sold in pharmacies

35% is also sold as a pool and spa treatment, the difference is it has some additives to prevent decomposition so it stores satisfactorily at room temperature

as far as i can see the additives are not harmful and its quite OK for topical use, but the additives do reduce the oxidising effect slightly, so you come to the central issue of topical use which is to try to get the concentration up to 40% by evaporation in a warm dry place

also you need to be careful about storage, it keeps almost forever in the freezer and doesn't freeze, but looks like a fizzy drink, but can kill you if you drink it, so as I say it needs to be treated with care like a poison !

it has numerous industrial, medical and cosmetic uses


developing oestoarthritis in my right acromioclavicular joint as a result of topical 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide as well as block splitting has tempered my enthusiasm for the daily use of HP !

so i stopped using it and took 1000 iu of vitamin D daily for several months which knocked back the autoimmune effect, and small frequent vitamin C doses and gelatine broths hopefully helped with the cartilage recovery, the joint has pretty much recovered

i also used my homemade uvb lamp and sunbathing at sun angles above 68° is useful

HP is a superb anti-viral, pity really, i do still use it occasionally however for shingles or basal cell carcinoma or acne, or a bad flu/colds run

it works very well on  acne  and bacterial infections on the skin, only needs to be applied once or twice and then you leave it for several days to heal !

filling a plastic  bottle top  with HP and leaving it out over about four or five warm  (35C ?)  dry days so the water evaporates out, seems to intensify the HP concentration to maybe  45% ?  and this increased intensity may be of assistance for some conditions, though painful!

just be careful with this very intense HP tho, i think it can cause the skin to get a red tinge that takes months to disappear if used too frequently on the same spot !

i suspect HP would be of assistance with lymes or cancer

because of the propensity of hydrogen peroxide to induct rheumatoid arthritis, it's a fair bet that it has the potential as a therapy for a  reduced  susceptibility to alzheimers or inducted destruction of beta amyloid  (50% in the linked study !)

new research shows that a protein from white blood cells, known as tumour necrosis factor alpha  (TNF alpha) ,  causes some of the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis, so it seems likely that topically applied hydrogen peroxide is strongly promoting of this and that TNF alpha must also be anti-viral

TNF blockers are used in treatment for rheumatoid arthritis ,  particularly juvenile rheumatoid arthritis

there is a place for the topical use of HP in certain emergency situations like an unresolving viral infection or more generally for some skin cancer's or pre-cancers or ringworm or some other fungal infections

i think it's important to keep the sun off  35% hydrogen peroxided areas of skin for a minus 12 hours and maybe + 24 hours time slot, other wise you may develop a liver spot there with the double egentic damage from the hydrogen peroxide and the sun !

the main problem is that HP doesn't just promote TNF alpha but it also tags collagenous skin cells with various adducts  (acting as adjuvants?)  and the immune system then identifies these cells as foreign and cross references this identity to materials like cartilage in the joints, especially if there is already damage and immune activation there

hydrogen peroxide summons white blood cells  study

my  write up  on HP and ear wax removal

july 2010 update :

i have been using HP in combination with earlier placed iodine on my nose for several days for a sort of small pore of winer spot and now have a sore lower back which i think is a combination of some virus and the the HP inducting an attack on the disk collagen enabling immune cells entry to the collagen within and inflaming the nerves, it's really quite sore and limiting of mobility

new research shows that lower back pain can be due to the disk case cracking and immune cells gaining entry and the nerves being inflamed from attack by these immune cells  study

theres a definite upper limit to how much and often HP can be used


i apply  35%  food grade HP undiluted on the skin with a cotton bud, it does hurt and will make little white spots on the skin for an hour as it reacts with the catalyse in heme

usually i wipe the area with rubbing alcohol first so it has a stronger effect, and only do small areas

be very careful not to get it or the fumes in the eyes

only a small amount of HP is needed, i fill a plastic bottle top almost completely full and leave it for a day to several days depending on room temperature so some of the water evaporates off and the hydrogen peroxide intensifies !

possibly evaporation at cooler room temperatures give a better ratio of hydrogen peroxide (more intense!) ,  however i am not sure about this !

you can do this several times adding more hp each time !

for general immune spruiking you need to rotate different skin areas, though for this use, it's most effective applied in chest area

you can dilute it down with reverse osmosis or distilled water if your skin is sensitive

there's no getting around what is happening is the body is being made to think there has been a severe injury with the application of this stuff, that's how it works

it has a strong systemic immune stimulatory effect, especially anti-viral, but can also induce an autoimmune action against damaged cartilage

luteinizing hormone inducts hydrogen peroxide as a signaller so i suspect that the skin application of hydrogen peroxide inducts some of the same  effects  as luteinizing hormone

in men luteinizing hormone stimulates leydig cell production of testosterone

if starting out using on the skin, experiment with a very small area, the skin reaction can be quite delayed, and in fact use can only be occasionally because of the osteoarthritis promoting effect

food grade HP needs to be kept in the fridge or freezer, but beware of kids/teenagers grabbing it and drinking it, a mouthful of  35%  can embolise the portal vein in the stomach and kill


the too frequent application of HP can promote osteoarthritis, i have backed right off daily use

cartilage and skin are both collagenous materials, the HP on the skin may be forming antigens which the immune system is then cross responding to by attacking cartilage

you would by that logic expect k2 and retinyl acetate by themselves or together not to have that issue, but k2 and/or retinyl acetate with HP would incite a very strong attack

ra and k2 are immune stimulants but for cartilage to be destroyed you need skin antigens from the application of the HP as well

the lungs would be highly collagenous as well which might be why HP works well on viruses there

interestingly i have never felt the brain was ever under any sort of autoimmune attack with skin applied HP


someone i know with a possible narrowing of the brain capillaries noticed some mild trauma similar to a stroke she had with the oral ingestion of four drops of 35% HP in a mixture of vinegar, water and iodine, so its definitely an issue

it may not have been mixed enough by swirling the mixture back and forth, in theory the HP should be decomposed to a degree by the iodine, however even when she did that and using only one drop of HP, there was still a disturbance in vision

she took some flush type niacin which relieved the embolism

see the  oral iodine tincture  section on the iodine page on using oral HP to free up more I2

oral HP is very hard on the stomach, even just one drop of diluted 35% food grade, i hardly ever take it now


unfortunately hydrogen peroxide looks very drinkable, especially with a few fizzy bubbles in it when shaken

it can be kept out of the freezer in a cool place, but loses potency about 16 times faster

i will pour about 5ml into a small plastic bottle cap and just leave it on a bench which can be used for several weeks just left there

it's odd, not a poison per se, but it makes oxygen bubbles which can be an embolism issue

it basically reacts with the catalase enzyme in heme in the blood to create oxygen bubbles

it will store in the freezer without freezing, my freezer took it down to -14C/7F and i have read that 35% HP stays liquid down to -33F/-36C

if the freezer is so cold that water ice crystals form (unlikely in a home freezer), be wary of removing the water ice crystals as this would make the HP solution considerably more concentrated and present a detonation danger if the now more concentrated solution temperature is raised

undiluted HP is used as rocket fuel, i think 50% is about the highest non detonative safe dilution

it will keep its potency for twice as long for every 10 degrees drop in storage temperature, the shelf life is shorter at higher temperatures and with contamination of the HP

it should not be stored in glass long term as there is a slight reaction with glass

it reacts with the catalase enzyme in heme (in blood) and releases oxygen bubbles making the skin go yellowy white, or causing foaming in areas with high densities of blood vessels near the surface of damaged skin

i apply HP by putting the end of a cotton bud into a small plastic bottle cap into which i have poured .8 to 1ml of HP  (throw away this HP in the cap afterwards) ,  leaving it there for a while to let the HP soak in and then applying the HP to the skin

i try to rotate skin areas to avoid putting HP on the same skin area two or three times in a row, but in a single application can apply the HP several times with intervals of several or more minutes in a layering manner to get more strength and skin response

the area of skin that has been just HP'd is best left unclothed as long as possible and when clothed again, the new thermal underwear, singlet, shirt, whatever, should be clean to avoid any bacterial/bioflm contamination of what is effectively a minor wound

HP may be most effective applied to the chest or upper chest where it is close to the lungs and other organs

HP applied to the feet seems to be problematic or at least needing care, because of the leakage of white blood cells from the veins where the return back pressure to the heart is greatest!

this is a similar mode to the causes of leg ulcers and the severity of effect very dependent on age and circulation!

when u get up in the morning may be the best time to apply HP as this is when the immune system is at it lowest

be very very cautious appying HP to the penis glans, the epithelial cells there are very unstable, tissue damage that may take a week or more to heal will occur

the glans have an extremely high level of immune activity for obvious reasons, hence auto-immune potential, and most likely corresponding female parts are similar


i am wary of putting HP on any  moles  that look like potential melanoma except say just once to search how cancerous the mole is, because HP is mutagenic, which is why thyroids can get so damaged with the all the HP they use to organify iodide to iodine

also i may have had a seborrheic keratosis branch out with a little run in one direction after the application of HP

however i am getting less worried about the mutagenic effect of HP on the skin and using it more freely now !

the practical heft may be that the very pronounced local and systemic immune excitation inducted by the HP overrides any mutagenic action !

HP has a possible skin cancer risk on sun damaged skin, especially pigmented; no wonder people get thyroid nodules with low iodine and selenium intake when the thyroid makes more HP to extract the last ounce of viable organification of iodide, and the low selenium reduces the amount of glutathione peroxidase available to provide protection against the extra HP generated

“ In the research study  (march 2008), Tzipora Goldkorn and colleagues describe how they exposed different sets of human lung airway cells  (in the laboratory)  to cigarette smoke and hydrogen peroxide

After exposure, these cells were then incubated for one to two days. Then they, along with unexposed airway cells, were assessed for signs of cancer development

The cells exposed to cigarettes smoke and the cells exposed to hydrogen peroxide showed the same molecular signatures of cancer development, while the unexposed cells did not ”

degreasing of a bit of skin if necessary can be done by cleaning with a bit of isopropyl (rubbing) alchohol on a cotton bud, though just applying HP twice or three times to the same spot with some drying time in between seems to work well, but HP is best applied after a bath or shower

also i apply it before eating so as to get the maximum immune system response since when you start to eat and food particles hit the blood, the immune system gets confused from the extra antigens

applying HP to the the thick skin of the upper back may give a good general anti-viral immune response, however the thick skin of the upper back can be slow to heal, and also the upper back is the area most likely to have pre-melanomic moles so you have to watch out for the mutagenicity of HP, i have had a pigmented mole on my upper back grow in a line for about a cm after the application of HP, you can bet i was assiduous in the application of iodine! i think it's put me off using HP on the area.

i discard the small amount of HP i have poured into a bottle cap after use to avoid contaminating the bottle of HP by putting it back - be very careful to avoid contaminating HP with iodine as iodine is a catalyst

be careful you don't apply to too large an area of skin because the response to the HP can be delayed, especially if the HP is cold and come out of a fridge or freezer

HP may better applied when it has warmed up a bit from the fridge, though i don't bother as it warms up on the skin

if the bottle has been sitting undisturbed in the freezer for quite a while, the HP may separate out a bit and sink below the water, so it may pay to give the bottle a gentle turning over to mix the contents, not too vigorous or you start to release oxygen - not at all sure about this, though, comments would be welcome

it can be very painful and also make an unsightly sort of yellowy 'foam' of 'bleeding points' which are in fact embolised blood vessels, so if you apply it to too large an area of skin thinking its not doing anything, you could be in for a nasty surprise

it seems to stimulate a significant general anti-viral response that also extends to bacteria and biofilm i think

HP increases natural killer cell activity and interferon production

if you feel tired several hours after applying HP for the first time for a while, i would assume this is a drain from the immune system getting active against background viruses and its best to lie down for a while

generally HP makes for a feeling of energy and clarity from several hours after applying and this can last a day or more

it is synergistic with skin applied iodine (in a separate position on the skin) and msm

intravenous HP carries a strong risk-certainty of embolism

even small very amounts of diluted oral HP may carry some embolism heft if u have heart or brain blood circulation problems ,  (especially if anemic/low iron as well)

“ embolization  was caused by oxygen bubbles being released within the vascular bed by absorbed H2O2, rather than by penetration of the capillaries by gaseous oxygen ”

low iron and narrowing of the brain capillaries which is a condition that some people can develop as they get older and is bad news in this respect

the flush type niacin is a big help if you suspect embolism


i have been taking HP orally by adding 4 drops of nominally 35% (but probably more like 25%) HP, to 40 ml of reverse osmosis or distilled water first thing in the morning (swirling the mixture with direction reverses in the glass to mix it in, but not so vigorously that the HP starts to gas oxygen) and it seems to have a very positive anti-viral effect

seems ok but might be the upper limit of the dilution i am prepared to try, can just feel the stomach have a touch of a very slight burning feeling

in fact this four drops gave a white tongue after several days use so i have discontinued doing it and now only use one drop of oral HP with iodine very very occasionally

40 ml distilled water = 720 drops; drops HP% is 4/720 = .0055 = .55%;

.5 % upper limit?

there is a case of a korean woman having a portal vein embolism  swallowing  a mouthful of 3% HP

the oral HP starts to give a lift an hour or more after drinking and also there is a feeling of weakness which may be the body supplying the extra resources required by the induced immune response

i think that when an immune response is induced either by a virus or by the HP, the body makes more melatonin as signalling compound for activating the immune system and this can flow onto improved sleep if you are a low serotonin type

" The hormone enhances IL-2, IFN-gamma and IL-6 production by cultured human mononuclear cells. As enhancement of IL-6 production is related to monocyte  activation  by melatonin, the hormone acts on human lymphoid cells causing a Th1-type response "

the limitation of oral HP is that between the oxidising action and gut immune system induction, good stomach flora gets killed, i got some white biofilm on the tongue from just taking the HP orally two days in succession

after five days of once daily oral HP, a woman i know started to get a fermenting biofilm as per her words:  " my gut biofilm feels a bit fermenting and there is a taste coming up, also feel drawn to fruit not savoury food today "

she also had a bit of tongue white after taking HP for a day or two

HP orally clots the blood a bit so people with anything less than a very good cardiovascular system would be advised against it

iv HP is way too risky for me to even thinking of trying and i have a very good cardiovascular system



melatonin is best used only once or twice a week and in very small quantities because of habituation !

it is never entirely free of neurotoxic impurities so caution is needed !

prolonged/slow release versions give gut issues after a while

the secret of melatonin use is there are the problems of habitutation, you only want to take it every couple of days and use small doses, divide the capsule or tablet down !

melatonin has similar impurity issues to tryptophan, thats is, serotonic molecules like tryptophan and melatonin have very toxic analogues, but the quantity of melatonin taken is so small in relation to tryptophan that the absolute amount of toxic analogues is always going to be much less and not such an issue

it is a major help with  sleep  and as a heavy metal anti-oxidant especially for lead in the liver and for the brain

is short, in some situations it is a real    port in a storm  ! : 0 )

however melatonin does lower blood pressure and this can be an issue for those with circulatory insufficiency while sleeping

i think supplemental melatonin does promote the endogenous production of melatonin while the supplemental melatonin is acting

melatonin has complex immune modulary effects ,  promoting thymic peptides  but   dialing down   the inflammatory process relevant to MS making it a potential MS remedy!

melatonin considerably reduces breast and prostate cancer risk  (on my  sleep  page)

melatonin delays ALS and Huntington's disease  onset  through reducing neural cell apoptosis


fluoride accumulates in the pineal gland and inhibits melatonin production which reduces sleep and also makes for early onset of puberty in girls  studies

it only takes surprisingly small amounts of fluoride to affect sleep.

you have to be careful of store bought 'mineral' water in australasia as this is just town water and likely has fluoride whereas 'spring water' is actually from springs and should be without fluoride

precocious puberty can be delayed in girls by taking from about 3/4 mg to 1 and 1/4 mg of melatonin about three nights a week

if you have been using fluoride toothpaste or drinking fluoridated water and just stopped, fluoride takes quite a while to come out of the pineal gland so you could be a bit short on melatonin for a while


the MRM  (its brand name)  melatonin, is 5-Methoxytryptamine which is a de-acetylated derivative of melatonin

i used to take about a quarter  (3mg/4 = .75mg)  of a capsule before bed once a week depending, but  strontium has enabled me not to need to take this now

from wikipedia

"When acetyl groups are bound to certain other organic molecules, they impart an increased ability to cross the blood-brain barrier. This makes the drug reach the brain more quickly, making the drug's effects more intense and increasing the effectiveness of a given dose. Acetyl groups are used to make the natural anti-inflammatant salicylic acid into the more effective acetylsalicylic acid, or aspirin. Similarly, they make the natural painkiller morphine into diacetylmorphine, or heroin."

this form of melatonin is very good for  jetlag

it seems much work much better in small quantities like 1/5th or 1/10th of a capsule

in terms of doses for children dividing down by body weight gives a rough approximation tho a bit more can be added on that as they have a higher metabolism

one habituates to melatonin anyway so you can't use it more than once or twice a week anyway

melatonin does degrade after a while so i toss an opened capsule after several weeks or so if i haven't fully used it, depending on how damp it has been


Biochemotherapy with immunomodulating pineal hormones other than melatonin: 5-methoxytryptamine as a new oncostatic pineal agent  study

"Several experiments have demonstrated that pineal gland plays a physiological anticancer role. Melatonin (MLT), its most investigated hormone, is a natural anticancer agent. However, MLT would not be the only endocrine molecule responsible for the anticancer property of the pineal gland. In fact, another pineal indole hormone, the 5-methoxytryptamine (5-MTT), has appeared to exert in vitro an antitumour activity superior to that of MLT itself."


 “ melatonin was much more rapidly  oxidized  than the 5-hydroxylated and non-substituted analogs ”   -  so the mrm lasts longer as well

it seems to convert slowly to melatonin so making for a time release effect and avoids the extreme of the low blood pressure peak that straight melatonin has

it is reasonably hard on the gut, but i find the the 5-methoxytryptamine is the best form

5-methoxytryptamine is an effective anti-viral and also melatonin promotes t cells

if anyone from the MRM company is reading this, please put a dessicant in the bottle

melatonin starts degrade once the bottle is opened unless it is refreshed with a dry dessicant every month or so, more frequently if the weather is damp

the pure encapsulations melatonin is good, and has a small capsule with an scd legal filler

not using too much melatonin is the secret to its use.

melatonin won't over ride any excitement, its not a knockout in that way, if theres an emotional disturbance the sleeping effect is lost.

a good test for leaky gut can be how quickly a normal release melatonin works, if the gut is leaky it will work in five minutes rather than half an hour

sublingual in tablet form seems not to be absorbed under the tongue, just goes down to the stomach like any normal tablet, though the source natural melatonin liquid does appear to be absorbed if held under the tongue

however i have noticed that there is some bad effect from some of the ingredients in the source naturals liquid melatonin - Other Ingredients: deionized water, proplyene glycol, sorbitol, natural orange flavor, vegetable glycerin, citric acid, alcohol (6%), methylparaben and propylparaben.

toxic additives in liquid supplements is an intrinsic problem because liquids are so fertile to biofilm

i have noticed the melatonin molecule doesn't like to be cramped in a tablet

melatonin is an antioxidant very good at neutralising hydroxyl radicals, protecting cell membranes from lipid peroxidation and other antioxidant effects and is very useful for a once week or so anti-oxidant knockdown of the pathways it addresses that sorta seems to reset the brain.

the mrm melatonin seems to keep well, but not forever - bacteria get in and form not-good analogs of the melatonin i think, a very subtle problem and difficult to detect

the liquid ones go off after a while even in the fridge if you are not using much. but if i keep up with the lithium (as per lithium in the compendium index) then i find i don't need the melatonin so much.

melatonin good for preventing free radical damage to dna from external electric magnetic fields to the brain.

the source naturals liquid melatonin has on balance issues with its preservatives and sorbitol, not suitable. the ingredient list is sorbitol, vegetable glycerine, purifyed water, propylene glycol, ethyl alcohol (6%), natural orange flavour, citric acid, methy-paraben, polyparaben

the occasional use of melatonin seems to help reset some base oxidation state, it is a fat soluble antioxidant that seems to target a specific area not reachable in other ways.

according to david gregg ( it helps with chronns.

its very important to get decent quality melatonin, no-name stuff is not suitable.

the lef time release and source naturals liquid are not suitable and have scd type digestive issues and in fact all the liquid melatonins have toxic preservatives.



a enzymesandautism thread (7th july 04) titled 'DDI Hair Test Results

Here are the DDI hair test results for my son age 6. The only supplements he takes are Houston enzymes with every meal (reg pep, zp, and nf- one cap each), and approx 50 µgs of selenium daily. R.


element result ref range color

aluminum 11 < 8.0 yellow
antimony 0 .074 < 0.066 yellow
arsenic 0.029 <0.080 green
beryllium <0.01 <0.020 no line
bismuth 0.061 <0.12 green
cadmium 0.039 <0.15 green
lead 0.18 <1.0 green
mercury 0.05 <0.40 green
platinum <0.003 <0.005 no line
thallium <0.001 <0.010 no line
thorium 0.001 <0.005 green
uranium 0.14 <0.060 yellow
nickel 0.08 <0.04 green
silver 0.05 <0.13 green
tin 0.39 <0.30 yellow
titanium 0.74 <1.0 green


element result ref range color under/over 50%

Calcium 282 160-500 green under 50%
Magnesium 24 12-50 white under 50%
Sodium 26 12-90 green under 50%
Potassium 14 10-40 green under 50%
Copper 9.5 9.0-30 green under 50%
Zinc 210 110-190 yellow over 50%
Manganese 0.12 0.18-0.60 yellow under 50%
Chromium 0.29 0.23-0.50 green under 50%
Vanadium 0.040 0.025-0.10 green under 50%
Molybdenum 0.11 0.040-0.089 yellow over 50%
Boron 0.94 0.50-3.5 green under 50%
Iodine 0.43 0.25-1.3 green under 50%
Lithium 0.013 0.007-0.023 green over 50%
Phosphorus 165 160-250 green under 50%
Selenium 1.6 0.95-1.7 green over 50%
Strontium 1.4 0.21-2.1 green over 50%
Sulfur 54600 45500-53000 yellow over 50%
Barium 0.31 0.19-1.6 green under 50%
Cobalt 0.011 0.013-0.035 yellow under 50%
Iron 10 6.0-17 white over 50%
Germanium 0.060 0.045-0.065green over 50%
Rubidium 0.011 0.008-0.080 green under 50%
Zirconium 2.4 0.060-0.70 red over 50%

andrew:  antimony in bedding?

R:  Yes. He is sleeping on a regular mattress. I guess I need to get him an organic cotton one.

andrew:  low copper to zinc so i think you will get good gains on say 1/8 of a tablet once or twice a day of source naturals copper sebacate

R:  I've been reading your posts about copper lately, and am interested. I just wanted to get the hair test done before adding anything else. Will start looking online for some as I did not see any in my local hfs.

andrew:  r u sprinkling the enzymes on the food?

R:  I make him a chocolate wafer and put it in the freezer. He is a very picky eater/drinker and usually notices when I add stuff to his food or drink, so this is the only way I can get him to take them.

andrew:  your enzymes delivery is not effective, i was going to say it looked like malabsorbtion

i see a lot of silliness on this board about enzyme delivery, just straight sprinkled on the food gives maximal efficency and that maximum is needed. tipping from the capsule after the meal down the back of the throat or perhaps sprinkling on some cream after the meal may be ok to.   see   enzymes

don't think freezing does them any good either

andrew:  cobalt (B-12) low?????????

andrew:  if low thyroid i would look at manganese to

R:  How do I know if he's low thyroid?

andrew:  low thyroid is not easy to seperate from other things like low copper and it tends to complex into high central thyroid and low peripheral body thyroid

andrew:  chromium gtf???

andrew:  i think high uranium is a sign of poor kidney function

andrew:  uranium comes from water or local dust so you must have uranium in colarado as well, could come from californian food maybe.

andrew:  retaining mercury just means that mercury is being retained and not excreted which points to an underlying impairment of the sulphur chemistry.



vitamin K is an excellent antioxidant and    neural growth promoter ,   is essential to calcium transport and bone building in the body and helps tooth enamel recover from decay

both the mk-4 and mk-7 appear to be  anti-depressants  !

it steers calcium away from the arteries and heart valves and towards bone

it is also a cardiovascular health promoter and may help blood pressure

“the only  mechanism  for arteries to protect themselves from  calcification  is via the vitamin K dependent protein MGP.”

it's effect in rebuilding tooth enamel is most pronounced

it helps  maintain  retinal thickness in aging

there are two basic forms, phylloquinone (K1) found in green leafy  vegetables   and brassica    and  menaquinone (K2) with the subform homologues of K2, MK-4, 7, 8, 9 which are synthesized by bacteria !

MK-7, derived from  natto  persists much longer in the body than K1 and MK-4 and is much better absorbed than MK-4,  the bulk of which imo goes to feeding biofilm  !

in fact MK-7 may be a  better  source of MK-4 than MK-4 itself !

study  with post menopausal women shows that 180 micrograms of Mk-7 daily decreases bone strength and calcium loss by 70% and can delay osteoporosis by 10 to 20 to 30 years !

a later  study  talking about 600 micrograms daily as needed to significantly improve bone health, i take 90 to 180 !

Mk-4 also persists longer than K-1, but the MK-4 serum half life is not as  long  as MK-7

Mk-7 may offer considerable  cardiovascular  and other benefits over the other forms of vitamin K and this is the form i am currently  taking !

Vitamin K lowers prostate cancer risk, reverses artery hardening, promotes heart and cardiovascular health, is essential for bone mineralisation, stabilises blood coagulation, and reduces insulin resistance in older men

it improves insulin  sensitivity  and glucose tolerance

baby spinach and silverbeet/kale/swiss chard have quite a bit of K1 in, as well as luetin, and are best well cooked and steamed or pressure steamed

it's necessary to have a  gap  between taking calcium, magnesium or strontium and vitamin K/K2?


“Vitamin K1 is mostly used by the liver where it is involved in the synthesis of certain blood clotting factors. Vitamin K2 is also equally  active  outside the liver, in tissues including bone.”

“Osteocalcin is a vitamin K-dependent protein and is essential for the body to utilise calcium in bone tissue. Without adequate vitamin K , the osteocalcin (undercarboxylated) remains inactive, and thus not effective.”

“About 35 per cent of a mature adult's peak bone mass is built-up during puberty.”


“ Vitamin K2 has been shown to  reverse  arterial calcifications, which was a huge discovery. Vitamin K, or rather the lack of Vitamin K, plays a major role in the development of calcium deposits in the body and when K2 is supplemented in high doses, those calcium deposits disappear.”


i am taking one to two capsules of caruso's mk-7 every day, each separated preferably by at least three or four hours, but usually just one a day now, the quality and potency seems to have improved !

the caruso's uses a better quality than jarrow, its subtle but you can tell the difference over a while

figure 1  is a chart of the serum levels following a single dose !

quality is important and depending on the manufacturing source will vary, trans percentage and formulation stability being important !

it can depend on what i am eating like i find rhubarb relieves the need somewhat for supplemental vitamin K being quite high in vitamin K itself !

green veges as well reduce the need for vitamin K supplementation !

the jarrow capsule is coated with caramel to keep the light out, but caramel is an AGE so i may spit the capsule out after thoughly chewing it to get the contents out !

maybe this is a bit extreme but who knows there might be a bit of mk-7 stuck to the interior gelatin wall of the capsule !

K2 is a useful supplement for the loss of mitochondrial function with aging by transfering electrons !

mitochondrial dysfunction was rescued by vitamin K2 that serves as a mitochondrial electron carrier, helping to maintain normal ATP production         abstract            article


“The main form of vitamin K in the brain was MK-4, and it was present in significantly higher concentrations in myelinated regions (the pons medulla and midbrain) than in nonmyelinated regions.”  (pmid: 14704312)

it is a fat soluble vitamin and needs fat or cream for absorption

its quite a strong stimulant and immune stimulant and takes a while to kick in

in fact half of a vrp mk-4 capsule on top of some cream taken a bit earlier to aid absorbtion (also on a background of  mushrooms as an immune stimulant in a meal) is is a good test for oesteoarthritis joint issues by making them noticably worse

powder form MK-4 may make the gut slightly queasy, initially anyway

it's laxative in larger quantities, though tolerance improves the longer you use it, maybe denuding the body of oxalates?

it's a good brain antioxidant

may help teeth re-enamelise

too much might overmobilise calcium and push oxalic acid into the intestine?

it's persistent in the blood, a half life of a day and a half ?

its an immune system modulator with a strong strong anti-viral effect and promotes the formation of antibodies

de-calcifier of blood vessels, may also help in the eyes with wet macular degeneration

neural growth promoter and acts at the mRNA level

effects on blood and heart

possibly promotes insulin supply and reduces insulin resistance through its involvement with osteocalcin (carboxylation?)

"Osteocalcin directs the pancrea's beta cells, which produce the body's supply of insulin, to produce more insulin. At the same time, osteocalcin directs fat cells to release a hormone called adiponectin, which improves insulin sensitivity"

osteocalcin is a protein made only by bone-forming cells (osteoblasts)


K2 is great for putting enamel on the biting surfaces of my back teeth, i can tell by a bit of tenderness on the back molars biting surface cause of all the lemon juice i drink (diluted in hot water) which goes away with k2 (in conjuction with vit d perhaps)

molybdenum good for strengthening tooth enamel as well


vitamin k deficiencies result in excess calcium in the neurons

yogurt and cheese in excess can load the mitochondria with excess calcium and freeze its operation

K2 seems to mobilise calcium out of the mitochondria and todays diet is overloaded with calcium which is why i am not keen on broths over-heavy on bones that leach a lot of calcium

it could be very useful for multiple sclerosis/cfs as it seems to free up the calcium out of cells and help tuck it away in the bone

it is essential for the  function  of the   protein C   pathway in endothelial cells that line the intestine and down regulates inflammation

“ Protein C anticoagulant activity in  relation  to anti-inflammatory and anti-apoptotic activities ”


i think K2 dissolves calcium oxlate crystals in the bile tubes and ducts in the liver greatly helping bile flow

"Oxalic acid gets stored in cells and is the “leftover” after the K2-activated proteins pull the calcium away from the CaOx crystal. Oxalic acid is what the kidneys filter into urine and what the intestines secrete into the stool." - catherine tamaro

actually k2 is a great test of biofilm issues since you start to see how much calcium oxalate you have in you

"What Vitamin K2 actually does is allows the Vitamin K cycle to activate calcium-binding proteins. Those proteins (e.g. osteocalcin, GLA, matrix-binding protein) cannot bind to ionized calcium unless and until they are activated in the Vitamin K cycle. Normally about half of the calcium circulating in the bloodstream is bound to these activated proteins (making it biologically inert), while the other half is in the form of ionized calcium (which is biologically active). The activated proteins can bind to ("chelate") the calcium in calcium-oxalate deposits in the body, pulling the calcium out and leaving the oxalate behind for disposal. The activated proteins can also prevent the binding of calcium to oxalate, especially in the kidneys, which prevents the formation of stones. However the calcium-binding proteins are not normally found in the intestines so they have little to no effect on CaOx in the stool."- catherine tamaro


recent research (Dr Martha Payne, from Duke University in Durham, North Carolina) shows that its not dairy fat that narrows and calcifies blood vessels in the brain, but the combination of high calcium and vitamin D in dairy products

this causes brain damage and dementia in older people (especially with calcium supplementation) but K2 supplementation considerably offsets this

"The leading theory is that when too much calcium is absorbed into blood vessel walls it produces bone-like deposits. This calcification may narrow the blood vessels and make them less flexible, reducing the blood flow through them.

In the brain, neurons could be deprived of blood and die, causing the lesions that increase the risk of cognitive impairment, dementia, depression and stroke."

(above quote from Dr Martha Payne's study)


L writes:

Just thought I'd update you since I've put my mom on K2 for hereditary Raynauds. My mom is now seeing improvement in her Raynaud's disorder. She is feeling warmth from her elbows down. She says its a miracle. I believe that as she goes up on the dose she will start seeing an improvement in her circulation especially the fingers. Just in time for the cold winter months. They are actually believing that I know what I'm talking about now. Now if I could only get her to stop smoking!!!!!

my comment: i think its a multi pathway response


vitamin K2 may also help with stool colour being made brown.

the K2 form ( i use the k2) may be preferred for supplementation since the conversion of K1 to K2 may be dependent on having a healthy gut flora (ref: "Menadione is a metabolite of oral vitamin K " - Thijssen)

Amy writes:

When I first started supplementing K2, I used the Pure Encapsulations. We did two weeks of 1 mg, and since my son was doing so well, I bumped him up to 2 mg.

Then, he started reacting to every food he ate. I assumed it was oxalates, but then in corresponding with Chris Masterjohn, he alerted me that 2 mg of K2 in the Pure Encapsulations product would also contain 1 mg of K1, which has documented toxic effects in adults.

Luckily, our Thorne K2 came in the mail. We've been on it one week (my ds 6, dd 2, and I), and we are doing wonderfully. I'm happy to report that many of our food intolerance reactions have gone away (we've even been able to drink raw and vat pasteurized milk and have sprouted sourdough bread), and we're all happy and calm for the first prolonged time in a long, long time.


the precursor of vit K2 comes from bacterial action on the K1 in spinach etc. in the gut

so with gut dybiosis it may be the K2 thats short and not K1, and K1 as a supplement may not hit the spot, but i have yet to try it myself

K1 in vegetables and fruit is beneficial but has a moderate half life compared to K2, probably rate limited by the digestion of the vegetables or fruit as the actual half life of K1 is 1 - 2 hours !


vitamin k saturates the bone building protein 'osteocalcin' with carboxyl groups, giving it 'claws' to hold onto calcium.

Activated osteocalcin anchors calcium molecules inside of the bone

Excess vitamin A appears to interfere with vitamin K absorption and a reasonable level of vitamin K in the diet may be necessary to offset the effects of vitamin A supplementation to maintain adequate bone mineralisation and keep calcium precipitation out of the kidneys, kidney tubules and arteries and joints.

some gelatine in the diet may be necessary to ameliorate the harsh effect of spinach and swiss chard on the gut.

ran out of high vit k veges earlier this week ( september 06) and you do notice a difference after going several days without them


"Vitamin K is abundant in (dark?ed.) green leafy vegetables. The greener the vegetable the more vitamin K, because vitamin K is involved in photosynthesis. The vegetables that stand out are spinach, kale, and collards. But broccoli is also a great source of vitamin K. Also peas and dark green lettuce."   sarah booth

my comment: i'm not so sure about peas, maybe she means snow peas?


Although several types of menaquinones exist, Booth and colleagues specifically measured levels of menaquinone-4 (MK-4). "We found that the meat and dairy foods we analyzed have moderate amounts of MK-4. Some of the foods with the highest levels of MK-4 include chicken, cheddar cheese, and egg yolks," says Booth.

"MK-4 is relatively high in brain tissue," Booth notes, "but its exact functions are not known. In the future, if we identify functions unique to MK-4, the presence of this form of the vitamin in meat and dairy foods may prove to be important."  article

Phylloquinone can convert into menaquinone-4. (from article "Menadione is a metabolite of oral vitamin K")



"While phylloquinone and menaquinones are found naturally in foods, dihydrophylloquinone is only formed during the processing of plant oils. Booth explains, "During a commercial food processing technique called hydrogenation, phylloquinone is converted to dihydrophylloquinone. Commercial hydrogenation also results in the formation of trans fats, which are now known as 'bad fats'." Last year, Booth was part of a study that revealed that dihydrophylloquinone is detectable in the blood, and that levels go up with increased dietary intake. In this study, men and women with higher blood levels of dihydrophylloquinone also consumed greater amounts of trans fatty acids. "

my comment: there may be issues with dihydrophylloquinone, since it is it was half as active with a clot-forming protein and was completely inactive with a bone-forming protein.


"Vitamin K inhibits the formation of calcium oxalate stones by synthesising urinary proteins essential to kidney function. Vegetarians, whose diets are often high in vitamin K, have a low incidence of kidney stones. Vitamin K is also necessary for the regulation of calcium in bone turnover and mineralisation. Vitamin K intakes much higher than the current recommendations improve bone formation as well as bone density."

also from the same page  X rays and radiation increase vitamin K requirements

so oxidative conditions increase the need for vitamin k

it does sound like vitamin K moves calcium and other minerals out of the body into bone

there will be synergies with vitamin D and other minerals, especially in combination with vitamin D it has really helped my lower back long term !

dammed  evolutionary  design !

the problem is if you have a biofilm established in the gut or kidneys or kidney tubules then this biofilm is going to be making factors that dramatically increase mineral precipitation/oxalate stones

so you have this basic issue of the immune system failing to keep these biofilms form forming which is the central issue scd addresses, but unlike the gut where you can to some degree starve the biofilm, you can't do that for biofilm in the kidneys and tubules, and the deficency of whey proteins that scd enforces accelerates this mineral precipation issue

vitamin k as you point out works the other way but can't be a complete answer by itself

the thing to realise is biofilms can be free floating like capsules in the stomach, or attached to a flexible walls like kidney tubules or the intestine or attached to rigid surfaces like plaque on teeth of body implants

bacteria in these colonies have an incredible ability to turn on different genes for different adaptive features


J. writes:

Considering that vitamin K can help nosebleeds and now I learn bruising, Cody and I must have same issue, just manifested in different body areas.

[As an aside, since adding vitamin E (1 drop is max tolerated for me), I am bruising very easily and have bruises all over me. I am thinking a weak capillary issue like Cody has, only mine not in my nose like him but in my arms & legs. Hope bioflavonoids from fresh oranges and lemons plus other supps will help in time with this.]

Should I try to supp with vitamin K for a while or is this something that will correct itself as our gut heals and we can absorb or make K better? Cody has had no more nosebleeds since dropping the vit E dose down. He is getting much faster results overall because he is 100% strict SCD and I am only about 90%. Those carb cravings do me in. I know my mom, who is on blood thinner, has to avoid vit K because it thins the blood too. She keeps horrible bruises on her body from the slightest bump and they take forever to heal. I've asked her if vitamin K can thin the blood so much, why doesn't she drop the blood thinner and take K, but she is terrified of another stroke so....

As I learn more and more it is so fascinating to see how beautifully intertwined the connections between vitamins and minerals and our bodies and the havoc toxins wreak upon this delicate balance.

eileen replies:

Easy bruising can also be a lack of vitamin K,

"Vitamin K needed for production of proteins required for normal blood clotting and is found in cabbage, cauliflower, spinach and other green leafy vegetables, vitamin K is also made by the bacteria that line the gastrointestinal tract, and individuals with vitamin K deficiency usually have an increased propensity to bruising"

my reply:

vitamin k helps the blot clot, opposite of a blood thinner

spinach kale/silverbeet are very high in vitamin k but are hard on the gut, so eat in moderation and not necessarily every day

obviously the blood being too thin is a factor in easy bruising

kids recover much faster than adults


the functions of vitamin k extend well beyond blood clotting and calcium mobilisation to build bone

it down regulates the inflammatory cytokine Interleukin-6

and also down regulates acute inflammatory gene exression in the liver

promotes glucose clearance and thus keeps insulin more in range.

it acts as an antioxidant, especially with lipids?

blood clots can be formed by the process of platelet aggregation which can be a result of oxidative stress, which is how people on warfarin can still get clots, vitamin k has a paradoxical role in preventing clots by aggregation, but being a factor in platelet coagulation.

the role of vitamin k in blood is complex and multidimensional and not a simple thick/thin dimensioner.

who_knows  link 


“ Menaquinone-4 concentration is  correlated  with sphingolipid concentrations in rat brain ” 

vitamins k1 and k2  prevent oxidative njury to neurons


high doses of vitamin e   antagonise  vitamin k

my comment :

the effect is so strong that even amounts of 100 iu of vitamin E without balancing vitamin K2 may be significant, giving rise to depression in my experience !



taurine has a huge benefit for migraine and fats and oil digestion, i had been effectively taking 45mg  (80% of the full tablet weight)  a day as magnesium taurate, but now i am only taking it straight as i think the quality of pharmceutical grade taurine powder is better  (amino acid quality is important)  than can be got in magnesium taurate

the best way to take taurine seems to be mixed with cream

taurine improves T-cell  proliferation  in the elderly

i’m taking 1/4 to 1/2 of a teaspoon, be careful as too much  (more than 150mg?)  can cause sleep problems  (which folapro works well to offset !)

it can in part be adequately got from the diet with attention to taurine rich foods, i notice that eating good dietary sources seems to reduce, but not eliminate the need for the supplemental

what foods  are high  (table two)  in taurine are interesting !

500mg  (ed.  half a gram)  is an upper amount of taurine, also its not necessary to take it every day

its an immune exciter, so can make joint problems worse


amino acids and  nutrition

except for taurine, i have not found amino acids to be satisfactory as supplements because they seem to be too plus and minus, that is, the minuses outweight the pluses.

"Highly toxic phenolic and aromatic compounds such as phenol, 4-methylphenol (p-cresol), 4-ethylphenol, indole, and 3-methylindole (skatole) are produced by bacterial degradation of tyrosine and tryptophan in the gut and excreted in the urine"


L-tyrosine and L- carnitine are yeast feeders

eileen writes:

I've tried Nutralife L tyrosine 500mg 1 a day which I wasn't keen on as it seemed to give a sort of false energy that was brittle/jarring somehow, switched to Musashi L-tyrosine powder for a few days at 500mg in case it was a quality issue but it seemed too much, I tried 1/2 then 1/4 But became so yeasty with it

So much so in fact that I felt almost drunk after using it for a few days, great mellow mood accompanied by love of fellow man ;o) Lol, but it was too weird/mellow and false

Also tried the Musashi L carnitine and found that also really fed yeast to the max and I ended up having to use candex.


creatine likely feeds biofilm so would be BCD illegal

don't worry about muscle, it's very metabolically expensive, the body adapts to illness by reducing it, to reduce overall energy costs

when it is able, it will put it on again

its the thin who survive, not the fat



‘ oreganol ’  is the trade name for the north american herb and spice product which i find very effective

it's pretty caustic, put a drop on senstive skin and you will see what i mean! don't get it in the eyes!

an empty stomach may be better for oreganol, but be careful as it is chemical napalam

it's best used intermittently on need and with candex, tho nowadays i use 2 each of the houston no fenol and zyme prime and cook a lot with fresh red chillis !

grapefruit seed extract (GSE) which is also used as an anti yeast makes the stools mushy and i don't use it.

R. writes (healing crow - august 06)

My UC 6 yr old son's UC is flaring - he's been on 20 mg of pred for over a week and his doc told me to start weaning him down today even though he's still having 3-4 blood streaked mushy stools a day. So I tried oil of oregano for the first time - we've done 3 drops a day for two days now and today he had a normal bm and only ONE! And that was on 15 mg of prednisone, too!

I guess my question is, anyone familiar with using this stuff? Will I need to stop it and do a rotation with something else, like will critters get resistant to it? Is 3 drops an ok dose for a 6 yr old and can/should I increase?

Thanks so much! He is 100% SCD as well, on a probiotic and taking protocel for yeast, though I'm kinda hoping this OOO will allow me to get him off the protocel. Protocel does nothing for bacteria but I can't get him off without negative response with UC so it's doing something (likely yeast or viral).

my comment:

protocel is interesting, has some copper in it which might be beneficial against viruses in the intestine. there may be a useful synergy with the OO, i would be interested to know if the OO was as effective when you have dropped protocell


oreganol is a spice basically, that's what the spice trade was all about, anti biofilmics/microbiomes !

the downsides of spices are other effects, including brain, liver, affecting or haemorrid inducing



D. writes:

Allie is running a 105 fever and tested positive for strep throat again, about the 4th time in the last year.

Any suggestions on what we can do to stop her chronic infections?

Dana replies:

My #4 [the most NT of my four kids] had strep throat four times last year. The first three times, I took her to the ped and he rx Zithromax. The strep was gone within a week, but she would develop strep again a month or so later, so back to the ped.

The ped said my boys would get it because it was highly contagious. He said when they did, I should just call in and he would rx Zithromax for them also. During this time, I decided to give them olive leaf extract, because it has worked as both an anti-viral and anti-bacterial for my kids in the past. The boys did NOT get strep.

So the fourth time she had strep, I did not take her to the ped. I just gave her OLE. The strep was gone within a week, and she has not had strep again.

During this time, I was also giving her vitamin C, so that might have had an effect also.


for supplements not taken daily, it pays to have a computer file  (i use  editpad,  but the windows notepad should be ok)  where you can record when you took a supplement


  a theoretical basis for not every day dosing 

i don't take some supplements daily

chromium and K2 for instance, but chromium, because of its potentiation of insulin production and entry into cells and the consequent large functional changes to  proteins  within the cell, ought not to have an interval of greater than two days !

  " until this study, we did not really appreciate the scale and complexity of insulin regulation

when insulin is released from the pancreas after we eat, it travels to cells and initiates a cascade of protein phosphorylation, literally millions of interactions, some instantaneous, some taking minutes or hours. the process is so precise and intricate, and at the same time so monumental in its scope, that it's truly astounding "

with the more biofilm feeding supplements i think one wants to not take them day and and day out as it's too facilitating for biofilm

physics strategy tested as solution for antibiotic esistance

a virginia tech biologist proposes to use a physics strategy called resonant activation to nudge dormant bacteria cells into a stage where they will be sensitive to antibiotics.

in medicine, resonance means the sound the doctor hears when he or she thumps your chest. in physics, resonance is a periodic force or an oscillation whose frequency is close to that of a natural system's frequency. sound waves are an example of a natural system that can be altered with resonant activation.

jianhua xing, an assistant professor of biological sciences at virginia tech who has studied more than a smattering of physics, was considering the problem of antibiotic resistance when he remembered a physics paper on resonant activation that he had read as a student.

one strategy bacterial colonies use to survive antibiotics is to create a few persister cells. because these cells are dormant or grow very slowly, they can dodge an antibiotic attack that requires active cell wall growth to be effective. persister cells convert to normally growing cells at a random and slow rate so that there are always a few that remain dormant until the antibiotics are gone. extending antibiotic treatment can be a dangerous strategy because of severe side effects, such as liver damage.

persister cells have multiple steady states, with fluctuations in the numbers of proteins as they transition to a normal cell. xing viewed this fluctuation during synthesis and degradation of proteins as a potential target for resonant activation. instead of a sound wave or electronic signal, the perturbing signal would be repetitive antibiotic treatment.

a computer simulation to compare different strategies of periodic antibiotics cued to protein fluctuations in persister cells was created. they  found  that resonant activation – fluctuating antibiotic treatments – accelerates bacteria colony sterilization

xing acknowledges that that the computer simulation simplified the problem by neglecting further complication due to mutation, but said he believes the concept has applications for cancer treatment. "on and off dosing with chemicals could be as effective as or more effective than long-term dosage. you need to stop and let the body recover, then resume," he said.

he is particularly interested in conducting experiments to see if resonant activation could increase the efficiency of inducing a normal (somatic) cell into an undifferentiated or stem cell.

" bacteria mutate quickly, but there could be applications for cancer or stem cell conversion, where mutation is slower or not an issue," he said


i store the partly used capsules and cut up tablets just a small plastic box with compartments

a 10 compartment box something like  this  -  fishing tackle box?

you can label the box compartments or just remember what the capsules and tablets look and taste like

mostly they keep quite well, i put vit e and d capsules i have pierced in the fridge in the fridge standing in some hole i put in a piece of polystyrene

to find

the pin hole in vit e capsules you just feel the end where it should be with the pin and just put the pin back in a bit and then put it in the fridge with the pin in standing upright in the polystyrene hole












the chromium gtf yeast and vit C tablet do tend to absorb moisture so i wrap them individually in gladwrap, depends on how dry the air is

germanium i only take about every three days


what follows on timing needs updating, but does give an idea

after the meal, pep, then a minute or two, then hn-zyme and no fenol (not the evening meal with no fenol)

5 minutes later about 45mg of ester C, vit C needs to be kept reasonably far from taking copper

1/4 of an hour later vit e followed by copper and zinc

i take b's 1/4 of an hour after e, copper and xinc, not to soon after though, b vits help feed bacteria and yeast, and b vits at the same time as enzymes are a bit much of a good thing for the stomach flora

i don't really take any supps with the meal but after

the copper is fairly soon after the e, the purpose of the e is to protect the carotenes and vit a's in foods from destruction by the copper

dual seleniums about 1/4 of an hour after the b's

i take the magnesium taurate (usually 1/2 a tablet) a bit after taking the b's or dual seleniums

this is one of those things that is continually a WIP

Eat your meal. not gobbling but with measure and chewing carefully. pressure cooking (or steam cooking in a pressure cooker) veges makes for their greater digestibility.

pressure cooking meat should be done on the lowest pressure setting reasonable cause the higher pressure means higher temps and higher temps destroy more vitamins. i never use the very highest pressure setting on my tefal.

sometimes if the meal is heavy in protein i will take a houstonni pep straight after the meal

also i always eat the protein first and sometimes it can pay to space it, like eat the protein then eat the vegs 1/4 of an hour later


dithering on enzymes first or ester C/copper/zinc/copper first again

the basic issue is copper sebacate is such a good mood lifter but so destructive of other nutrients

if you do the copper before the enzymes the food is not so broken up and has less surface area exposed to the copper but of course without the immediate enzymes things ferment a bit more though zinc does turn on stomach acid


have your meal

tip pep down the back of the throat, wait a few minutes then swallow a no-fenol in a capsule and tip hn-zyme down the back of the throat

Wait a bit.

take some ester vitamin C, wait 10 minutes to 1/4 of an hour to take vit e

i allow a minute? after taking the vit e, then taking the copper then the zinc, the copper doesn't have to be to far away from taking the zinc, like they can be within several minutes of each other

zinc doesn't inactivate copper, in fact they have a synergy in making superoxide dimutase

the zinc/copper duology needs to be buffered by something in the stomach, too close to bed might be an issue

i find i have to do the copper and zinc after both breakfast and dinner (i only eat two meals a day)

Wait a bit.

Take your vitamin B's. maybe a bit of thick cream before taking the b vits?

Take your magnesium taurate.

Take your vitamin E and EFA's?

wait a bit

dunaliella carotene and ra if viral? bedded on heavy cream? i generally take germanium before ra

i mix efas with a bit of freshly squeezed lemon juice and toss it down the back of the throat immeadiately after mixing

manganese and chromium are so stimulating they have to be taken with an eye to when it suits from an energy point of view

i usually take the molybdenum and seleniums together again sorta fitting it in when suits but well away from bed time

vitamin e and magnesium i generally try to take in the morning though mag can be ok in the evening


to fine divide capsule doses you first take an empty capsule and tip half of a full one into it so you have two capsules each roughly half full

i do this with both strontium carbonate and lithium aspartate

then just tip a bit into one of the small end capsule halves, then you can get a very fine division by seeing how far it comes up on the curved bit on the end

i do this on the lithium asparate to get what would be about 1/15th to 1/30th of a capsule

for the stontium, i just tip a tiny amount directly out of the capsule onto my tongue and judge the amount that way


J. L. writes:

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but with the supplements that are water soluble, isn't it better to give them a few times throughout the day since the body can absorb them more efficiently like this?

my reply:

b and C vitamins yes, lithium yes, iron yes, iodine possibly yes,
magnesium possibly yes,
the rest no


vitamin D and fish oil (efa's in fish oil) both strongly suppress the immune system short term

you have to sort of balance it, depends how viral you are, how much viral exposure you have had recently

you do have to put up with a bit of supression, basically its a question of not being too killed by it

thats what billy didn't get about using the uvb lamp he built, plus he was having plenty of viral contact and didn't want to reduce it so he has gone his way


vitamin A works better away from vitamin D because they are a bit antagonistic

also it seems to create a need for more vitamin D and vice versa

but you want a bit of phase lag when taking them

what you want is the immune system ramping effect of vitamin A without the short term immune supressing effect of vitamin D

but you need more vitamin D with vitamin A so you have to get the spacing right


  susan b. writes

schools in the us tend to go ballistic when they see kids taking pills on their own without a dr's order and thru the nurse's office. and it's an even bigger headache when it's non-prescription. the paper work is a nightmare. if you do send in pills, expect a call from the principal, and be ready with some explanations. no matter how careful she is, somebody is bound to see her taking them eventually. you may have quite a fight on your hands.

  my comment:

my view is that subconciously the school and bureaucratic health systems prefer people to be taking recreational drugs rather than supplements

most readers of this page will be unable to take on board the necessity of home schooling and avoiding peer viral exposure












 can get them




 on the effects

H  R  T

menopause is an intentional crippling by evolution of the supercharged form of human, however with intelligence and a practical working to reduce the probability of cancer,  hrt  is a viable option for those wishing to escape that  downsizing !

the effect of the loss of hormones is hugely variable, some women seem to at least scrape through but a fair portion are absolutely devasted by it facing extreme depression and various forms of acute dysfunction !

unfortunately depression can also be  a consequence  of the use of oral contraceptives  !  : o(

vitamin K  is of considerable assistance with depression !

i am including HRT because it dovetails so well with the compendium and BCD as a miracle cure for menopausal and post menopausal women !

estrogen  ( 17β-estradiol )  inducts both mechanical and electrical repair at the  stem  cell level so it's as profound a remedy as you can get

“ it's known that estrogen has direct effects on stem cell populations in female mice, from increasing the number of blood stem cells  (which is very helpful during pregnancy)  to enhancing the regenerative capacity of brain stem cells at the height of estrus ”

imo the compendium and bcd with it's strong immune stimulation emphasis greatly reduces the cancer risks of HRT

i have to say that the compendium with transdermal estradiol HRT is the  single most effective cardiovascular recovery regime available today !

it can   fabulously   repair heart arrhythmia's over a period of a year and a half!

that is,  it can regrow the heart electrical system in a functional way !

very  interesting ,  the standard ablation treatment is only 45% successful

medicine is pretty quiet about that

hrt must regrow nerves to undo these focal points

yeah,   naturally  the nerves must regrow themselves to avoid focal points in menstrating age women

with damage/oxygen starvation to parts of the heart focal points must occur and the nerves are unable to grow to undo them in the damaged tissue in the normal course of things, but estradiol/hrt is the magic elixer !  : o )

estradiol keeps the arteries flexible, women who have had their ovaries removed or a  hysterectomy  might well consider HRT as discussed on this page !

estradiol  restores  synaptic health, improves working memory and reduces brain amyloid  deposition




shown that women over 60






















some women are much more affected by menopause than others, probably because they have more estrogen receptors and really without HRT they may become suicidal

  “ prolonged estrogen  deprivation  in aging rats dramatically reduces the number of brain receptors for the hormone as well as its ability to prevent strokes, however the damage is forestalled if estrogen replacement begins shortly after hormone levels drop ”

estradiol  (not estrone or estriol!)  enhances  memory  !

indeed estrone given to women  who have had children  is neurally destructive ,  whereas estradiol promotes neural plasticity ! !

what estrogen does for   bone ,  synchrotron tomography images 2/3 the way down !

christ the old are soooooooo vulnerable !

updated HRT  recommendations  of the 2013  “british menopause society & women’s health concern”

  “ randomised controlled data from the danish osteoporosis trial have shown that hormone therapy reduces the incidence of coronary heart disease by around  50%  if commenced within 10 years of the menopause – this is referred to as the  ‘window of opportunity’  for primary prevention ”

they seem to be taking on board that the cancer risk of HRT relates to beginning it too late in life, like really about 56 is the last opportunity to begin !


  “ estrogen plays a role in liver functions, and may be a deterrent to liver cancer, as men get this type of cancer at a rate of four-to-six times more than women and animals models of this cancer show clear suppression by estrogen

the hormone also helps  suppress  the development of fatty liver, which can lead to liver damage and failure, and the inflammatory liver disease that results from chronic hepatitis ”


HRT  increases  muscle mass and strength !

as part of this increase you get    a double banger cardiovascular benefit of hrt   also significantly improving the muscular strength and hence pumping function of the heart

HRT doesn't just repair the heart's electrical system, it beefs up the pumping muscle !

if you have a hole in the heart  (  pfo )  with a titanium implant to seal it,  i am sure it also puts flesh on the implant which is very important !


patch release rates in the first four or so hours are very high and since one effect of estrogen is to lower blood pressure, new patches are best applied so that at least four or five hours has passed before 9 pm which is when the blood pressure starts to trail off for sleep

9 am might be a good time to change patches















daily blood pressure cycle, figures 1 and 2 in this hypertensive  study

though of course no doctor will prescribe HRT if they know you have cardiovascular problems due to liability issues !

“ the timing  hypothesis  suggests that hormone replacement lowers CVD risk if started around or soon after menopause, while later estrogen replacement increases risk ”

some of the cardiovascular risk of estrogen may relate to people with hypertension applying new patches too late in the day ?

estrogen would have to be easily the strongest and most effective drug for cardiovascular problems with women yet it is denied them !

a combination of  patch hrt,  intense sun on whole body skin and eating lamb brains greatly improves dreaming and dreaming recall which is a sign of greatly increased brain activity and circulation !

the novartis   estalis sequi  patch system works well since it gives a break from the progesterone which allows the cells to repotentiate their estrogen receptors and matches the natural ovulation cycle better !

it also uses norethisterone, which is an older   less prone to cause clots   form of progesterone

the plus side of progesterone is it is  neuroprotective  and promotes myelination as well as  protecting  against alzheimers !

a negative of progesterone is the need to  modulate  the estrogen/progesterone ratio in a manner that maximises the production of the immune protective protein cytokine   interferon epsilon  as progesterone inhibits the production of this protein !

  “ unlike the mini pill, contraceptives that contain both oestrogen and progesterone do not heighten risk of contracting chlamydia during unsafe sex practices as oestrogen boosts production of interferon epsilon and the decrease caused by the progesterone is cancelled out, the researchers add ”

the estrogen receptors start to repopulate in a significant way three or four days after stopping the combined estrogen/progesterone patch and that also is the period for which progesterone withdrawal seem to alter mood

the  estalis continous  50/140 patch which is estrogen combined with progesterone applied without an  “estrogen only”  patch break seems to lose it's effect entirely in three to four weeks from the progesterone reducing the number of estrogen receptors on cells, and probably starts to reduce the cells sensitivity to estradiol as soon as a couple of days after starting !

another major issue with using these patches is to try to retain estrogen/estradiol sensitivity and flush the built up endometrial lining that the estridiol causes !

menstrual cycle 

i do think that inducting some degree of bleeding represents a lower endometrial cancer risk

basically you have a lining build up that you want to get rid of, it may be that the combined progesterone/estradiol patch over the two weeks is enough, or wether stopping the patches entirely for several days to mimic the end of the cycle and induct bleeding is necessary or has an advantage is an open question !

in fact with patches you are always into a stop start mode a bit anyway cause of the way the dose tapers from one day to the next

on the third day the dose is probably down to 1/5 or 1/6th of the first day

continuous release is hard to do technically, far from perfect

patch release rates will be affected by temperature, the warmer it is the faster the release

fluid retention from the progesterone is best dealt with by more movement and physical activity, trying to get more potassium in the diet and cutting back on salt ! (you will need to think about supplementing  iodine  if iodized salt is your only iodine source)

if you are sunbathing you want to have some sort of breathable covering over the patch to keep the sun off to possibly avoid degrading the estrogen and time release

another reason for covering the patch in the sun is since estrogen is a strong growth factor it would favour cancerous mutations directly under the patch and also for this reason it may pay to keep the patch off tattoos

there seem to be two views as to wether tattoos induce a higher cancer risk or not,  yes  and  no

estriol creams which are what doctors try to palm women off on is only half the estrogen/estradiol molecule and only about 1/4 works compared to estradiol

estriol in particular does not help strengthen the cardiovascular system or improve mood and its upregulating of the immune system is partial, though it does something!

estradiol turns on the  notch  group of genes which strengthen the cardiovascular system, reduces heart  valve  calcification and upregulates other growth factors but unfortunately also increases the cancer risk

promotion of the  “ notch ”  pathway also  promotes  neural cell growth and differentiation and protects against T-cell acute lymphoblastic leukemia and multiple sclerosis !

estradiol is a  stem cell therapy for the heart and cardiovascular system,  this cannot be stated strongly enough !

imo it does  this  to a surprisingly large extent for women, which is why they have less heart issues over their childbearing years

the heart actually has stem cell therapy built into it at the genetic level as evidenced by this  study  showing that newborn mice fully self-repair heart damage

this  article  is saying that stem cells line the entire cardiovascular system which is why i think the hrt has been so successful for a friend          study 

the other side i think from that , that if the hrt is stopped, things will revert pretty quickly, and that's what this friend says  “ i have discovered that leaving longer between patches returns me to before patch use ”

estriol (the crippled or half molecule form of estridiol released by the fetus during pregnancy) doesn't turn on this cardiovascular repair gene set but still inducts a mild cancer risk

  this  is a cancer study and obviously has a different perspective but dermal estradiol would drive the production of more estradiol which in the context of the compendium and BCD is a wanted effect !

why dermal estradiol is so successful with rebuilding the heart and cardiovascular system is that it is regenerative, that is the dermal estradiol turns on enzymes that convert estrone to estridiol, hence the dermal estradiol is essentially leveraged !

estradiol is a natural blood thinner!

  “ the  study  has shown that the female sex hormone works on white blood cells to stop them from sticking to the insides of blood vessels, a process which can lead to dangerous blockages ”


  “ I have been on the combinded patch for 9 years. I am 57 and find the patches really suit me. I don't want to stop the patches but I have developed breast cysts. My male doctor was not very sympathetic and said I should stop the patches. He gave me no guidance. What should i do? ”        Goldie

i would take the development of breast cysts as a good indicator of estradiol fueled cancer promotion, maybe uterine as well, hopefully the compendium selenium and iodine supplementation would prevent these cysts developing !

in actual fact the compendium is a balanced supplementation program and really has to be done as a whole

the important point i think is you do have an early warning system with more fiberous breasts and cysts and this would also apply to the uterus and fallopian tubes

what does a breast cancer lump feel like ?   dr. grace wang  video

estradiol  (but not estriol!)  may cause some inflation of extra-mammary tissue on the milk line if it's there

it's not cancer, just embryonically developed breast tissue and should fluctuate in size with hormone levels.

cancer is hard and keeps growing which is quite different from this extra mammary tissue !


a new concept  -  estrobolome 

basically gut bacteria that release enzymes that can digest estrogen !

a lot of autistic spectrum women seem to have lower estrogen levels or lose sufficient levels early in life and this may be due a malign biofilm with unbalanced preponderance of estrogen digesting bacteria

rather fascinating !

the compendium with estradiol HRT is an all time major advance for women's health,  but of course,  this  is what some women prefer to go through !

back to or go to  compendium